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Special Edition with Sue Henry

Feb 6, 2017|

On "Special Edition" we'll talk at length with former WNEP TV reporter anchor and producer Marisa Burke about her more than three decade career with the station. Here she is flanked by Nancy Kman and me. We'll also talk to an attorney who clerked in Colorado for Superme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch and get the details of a new book about the March Against Fear, held during the 1960s.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Welcome to a special edition. A weekly look at these issues in the news and the personalities shaping the stories special edition is a production of Entercom communications. The views expressed by guests are not necessarily those of Entercom communications staff management or sponsors. Now here's your host soon Henry. On today's program we'll talk to former WNEPTV. Reporter anchor and producer Maria said Burke. About her story Brian as one of our region's most recognizable names women will hear the thoughts of a lawyer. Who clerked for Supreme Court nominee judge Neil gore such. And learn about the march against fear from me historian who chronicles it in new work. Mer recent Burke defied expectations many times during her more than three decade career at WNEP. Burke joined the station in 1984 after a mere eighteen months out of the market. A feat that those in the business now is astonishing. Considering the reputation of the high powered outlet then she managed to find a home there for 32 years. Which is very impressive any transient business she became a Jack of all trades at WNEP as well. Producing newscasts for a decade while balancing her duties on the anchor desk. Her run wasn't without offset difficulties. In 2008. And 2012. Burks then husband Marc can Dowell. Ran afoul with the law. He is incarcerated after pleading guilty to a charge of online solicitation of a minor. Burke will discuss this painful chapter of her life in a book she's writing. Expected out this year. She recently spoke at length to us about her work life and future who are your role models at the start of your career why did you get into broadcasting was under the did you. Watching localities was. Somebody that you would like to emulator that you admired. I eight graduated from Ithaca College. And Jessica savage is a very well known grad of Ithaca College I looked up to her Jane Pauley I admire so much I mean you and I grew up in a different generation of broadcasting and kitten those. Folks I I truly admired. And who wanted to be like when I was still a lot younger and because of theirs their skills and their personalities. And their genuine sense of how they approached us. Journalism. And that is something that. We talk about a lot in this teenage comeback has changed for for the batter and for the worse I mean some of these. Ways that we gathered journals are much easier than they all the ways that we do it but some of the methodology in the ethics and has changed dramatically. And that's so of course a cause for concern I think it is such a challenge for young journalists. In the state in age I know it's EEC at at our station but you see it in major markets now Los Angeles. New York where the reporters are also responsible for taking the pictures. I don't know how they do it and I admire. Anybody who does that now because I don't think I could do it at the stage of the game when we grew up in for in broadcasting. We were given a notepad and a and a pencil. And there was always somebody else taking pictures. So with that we could concentrate. On the journalism part of that we could concentrate on what questions we were going to ask and listen listen. To the person you were interviewing. Now worried about how we were going to frame the shine Horry is as the camera gonna work today. And these are the challenges that face young journalists today they have to they've they've they have to ask the questions but they're also. Concern that all the technical things are gonna work properly take you back to. How you start that you're at Ithaca new you know obviously graduated but then what did you do or how how hard was it for you. To get work it was not hard soon because I graduated from Ithaca in 1982. I had already. Made some mud connections at a television station. Where another graduate had already found work on the television station was located in Roanoke Virginia. So I went there and I started as a combat assignment reporter covering City Council meetings at night and by the time I left there. Eighteen months later I was the 6 and 11 o'clock co anchor and then I came home IE I found out. That there was a morning opening position and it channel sixteen. And I want it to come home this was my home. So both for all of eighteen. Months. Of your professional career you stayed. With WNEP which. I think is remarkable she never even had a hard time getting in there at the time because of the the prestige of WNET. The caliber of of what they do now not true I had to fly aid. The twice first time. We get a new stricter there. Who took the time. And it broke me back. And said you know what this is what you need to work on. And why don't you come and see me in a year year and a half. Which is what I did. And the second time around and he said you know what you're ready. We'll take Q now. And I was as green as anything I felt so privileged to be hired ex channel sixteen and the reputation. That they had. I knew I was so green and a hot. You know in the beginning I thought oh gosh you might even go to survive 32 years later you know come I was still there. That's an an amazing accomplishment especially inner fence. Wonderful I feel like WNEP. What do you started in the business any word green what what taught you monster what are some of the things you recall. These teachable moments when around public can we run into whether. People working in the field who you learn from in the field and and is there anybody that didn't die gay via hard timer reprimand you when you're out there. I it was fortunate that we had. My bosses at the time the news director he assistant news director the executive producer Mike co anchor in the morning. They dole took the time to nurture me and teach me. What it was like to interview. Two rights to write in a timely manner to write conversational leak. Right they they took the time and still I think that's what's missing in the stain age everything there are so obvious that it's sixteen has so many newscast now and and time is really so precious. The bed. Then sometimes managers and and and their caught up in so many different things now that they don't have to time to teach and and we've had these discussions before and last in and they said if only we did have more time to teach the younger folks away I was taught. That debt having meg ground work that that. Is that the skills. Too big to do your job. Whale to do had really good to and I think that people expand an expectation. That when you come out of our prestigious school like Jessica Ol look totally trained to. Now well known because you really need the real world experience yet she makes it makes all the difference when your thrown in there as uncomfortable. Or nervous as you might beat when you're out in the field and you know we have to get things Ryan and you know what the back your jacket says a new. Have this understanding and and sent an expectation hype for yourself. Is something that I think is so important you can read. Any textbook in the world but eating nothing gives you better training days and getting out and getting the real world experience and being with people and interviewing people. Face to face. You did you will never learn that in a textbook we ever intimidated by anybody you interviewed. I think in the beginning. When I was just so young and so green and it in you we would end term big government council meetings and things like that in and try to pronounce. Names. It that so I around here can be a little challenging because of Cindy ethnic backgrounds of of folks but. Yet I think in the beginning I I experienced and a lot. I can't think of any one particular person but. Can happen a lot of some of the stories that you did an area and are there any near recall off the top your head that you. We're very moved by air that you thought I'm really glad I'm in this profession because I can tell this person story. It needs to be heard back in the eighties. High you had done. Huge medical series. About colorectal cancer. And we head. Put on a big campaign of how people could pick up. Free. Tests to screen for hidden blood in your stole an. At that time believe it or not people this was a part of the body that people did not. Talk about they didn't want to share that. And I believe the campaign debt channel sixteen put on. Really put that whole medical issue in the forefront and because. Of the campaign we had and we handed out over 100000. Tests. Through that campaign we actually. Interviewed people who said you know what if it weren't for channel sixteen and this campaign. I wouldn't have found out that I had a tumor in my colon and my doctor said thank goodness we found out early because now I'm cured. And when you have people. Express that to you in in such a sincere way if you really tugs at your heart and gosh that would it was it was all wore sexy and I was so privileged to be a part of that is and that's something that some of our broadcasting colleagues sometimes forget is that our licenses. Are given to serve the public to humanity right many times I mean and the safety humanity. He needs to still be there if you're going to be dealing with people who weren't so sure rough and tumble environments sometimes and you know how corrosive it bleeds it leads you gotta get this time there's fires there's accidents studded and so we forget about that. Other component. That's what we do for a living hope that we don't ever fully forget it but sometimes it kind of slid citizen and then nine aspect should always. Be there. And that is something that I think young reporters need to understand and I'm sure that you told the many times that the the the basic. Tenets of our business. We're telling stories. That's. Cool to couldn't actually do it day in and day out so you don't have to come a master storyteller. I tried to be a teacher to some of our newer reporters about a year or so ago and the one thing. That kind of bothered me when I was out in the field with them. I was when they started interviewing somebody and they would look at the phone. And we get back in the car and I say you know my stay I know that it's I know everything has to be on social media now I I understand that. Well when you're interviewing somebody. They. Think wanna make eye contact you and if you're looking your phone you're not listening to their answers either. You have to listen you have to make eye contact. You have to to have that relationship with any by EU interview crickets what. You're not gonna get the story home. So that I use. I I tried to preach it let's put that I was so done with Donald Washington and I was listening to lose some of the challenges that these young reporters are now facing now. In the win me the other reporters are reporting and it brought me back on my heels because there was somebody who said. I tried in Erie of people and they say to me. Another reporter sad. That I can't talk to anybody else but the reporter. I already talked to my. Or some reporters will say to someone. Who is a reticent if I don't in your view you I'm going to get five years can do so these things have become super challenged out guys youngest is a because they don't know. They don't know how to talk to people. And say that's nonsense it's foolish. I've never leverage that on anybody in my entire life as if I don't get this story I'm going to get fired because. Is it and most are ballots that do that but I would think most are not that unethical I'm sure you. Feel the same way so. Hit it I I just I'm so fortunate that a grew up in an era in a different kind of error and Dennett is now like like I said I I admire these young journalists getting into this now that there are two respects responsible for so much. Taking their own pictures hosting everything immediately. On social media. They're so much responsibility out there right now I I really gifted. Anybody credit getting into this business now because it's difficult about the ascension to the desk the anchor desk because I see a lot of students that they believe that if they want to be an anchor it's gonna happen immediately they just walk right out into the sat. They put on the might kick and they re teleprompter we had a longtime assistant news director. Better place who always preached to us in order to be a terrific anchor you have to be a phenomenal. Reporter you have to develop those people skills. You have to develop your interviewing skills for writing skills. On air presents. You have to be a good reporter first. Before if you are. A good day. Anchor how much reading did you do. Sue before I left I was writing the entire 6 o'clock news in in 2006. Before 2006. I was anchoring the 6 and 11 o'clock news in 2006. We suddenly had a 6 o'clock producer. I believe it was very abrupt they needed somebody immediately the news director at the time turned to me and said do you think you could do this. Temporarily. Temper rarely is it airs it out as if you think you put it there because. I was producing the 6 o'clock news from 2006. Until my departure at the end of October and 2016 itself. You do the math it's ten years. But I lost it I absolutely. Loved it how did it change it out because they know that sometimes there's friction between people who do different jobs and there's a lack of understanding what to what what kind of epiphany did you have when you took that just about what I enjoyed the most was having the editorial. Decision making every single day. What stories we should be covering as a news organization. What stories. How how they're presented executed on the air how much time should be given to that. The grass takes all of those aspects that go into creating a newscast. Iowa is in charge up and didn't many probably many of your listeners out there probably did thought well gosh she's just appearing for the new news. And the 6 o'clock news and she doesn't do anything else new Noonan and now at a very long day my day started I I was in station at 9 o'clock in the morning. Looking through emails looking at try to look at all the newspapers every single morning all over the area where you're talking and all from northeastern and central Pennsylvania and look to see what they what. We're in those newspapers and then approach these editorial meeting every and and 930. With those ideas. To throw out there for discussion to see well do you think we should be doing more on this today did you ever. Have a moment. Where you. Killed a story and there was fierce resistance to Matt yes. Yes. And you know what over the years she learned to pick and choose your battles. I am very very passionate about news I always was you learn when to be assertive. But you also learn when to step back and a lot of times that's hard specially. Wind you've been brought up in such purest air on a journalism as you were I was. Difficult but you have to do it. Decision was obviously made last year that you would leave WNEP. Right can you explain that did you see coming I told the reporter from the times leader heap that he asked does the exact same question he said. Were you blind sided and here's my little story it was in September and I was called down to the other side of the building the administration party you know that's never a good thing when your called down to hook it straight shouldn't I was escorted by mightn't immediate new supervisor and we walked in and we sat down with the general manager and he was holding. I don't love. A paper folder and you know that done again is not and never did thank. So. So we sat down and the general manager looked at me and said Marie so do you have any idea what this may be about to. And I said yeah. I think I do I think that the company is going to be offering me a buyout and he looked at me and I'll never forget this and he said wow. You're good so maybe maybe it was my reporter and stinks that hit the network coming out at the time but now. I was not blind sighted I was fully expecting something like this to happen I mean you know doesn't that climates of broadcasting whether it be radio or television. India you know it's it's not all that great right now on it may it may turn around but at the time. You know when you have corporations. As big as so. Our owners are. When they offer you a buyout you hate it. They may never come back and they don't ever write don't and I'm glad I and the Sioux it was a generous buyout it it was it was a full four full year. And add your current salary with medical benefits. So it was very very generous. IE I was a very appreciative. To the the company. To the station. IE was very happy that they were so honest with me and nobody ever held a gun to my head. It repeatedly. And I was told you do not have to take this buyout you do not have to take access. And eighteen they were very that they emphasized that to all of us. But you know sit in in in this current state of affairs. If it if it's a company if a corporation offers you a buyout. Like this. Do you should take it. Did you have a second thought at all during an instance now that's great IE that's what I really didn't and and here's the other recent. You know I had a good run at sixteen I mean my gosh. I think I'm one of the few people in the country who can say. Then I had stayed with the television station. For over three decades. It's on her now do you know that. And no it doesn't happen. There was just down. Very well known. Anchorwoman in the Detroit market same thing happened she chief finally retired in November after forty some years. In broadcast think it's unheard of it's it's so. I I can't not like I don't have any hard feelings I really don't. I'm just very thankful that they kept me implore you all these she earth did you ever. Think of leaving did you ever addition anywhere else or think about now in China and hammer no no once I you know sixteen was my dream. I was so in my early twenties and and all I wonder when I was working in southwestern Virginia all I want you to listen to get home. And to work for this station that had such a terrific reputation. Nationally. And thank you what an honor what a privilege it would be if I landed a job. Tax channel sixteen and that's what happened a year in the process so I'm writing a book about your television fare which I think is outstanding. But you are also are going to address some of the struggles that you went through behind the scenes canoe. Please tell us about tell what you plan to do her as many of your listeners may now I went through some. Personal trauma in 2008. And again in 2012. The person I was married to the father of my aid to children turned out not to be the person who I thought he was he got into criminal trouble. In both. Oh wait and four years later and my personal trauma became very public. Trauma because of who I once and what I represent Lyndon my profession and it was a part of my life so very very difficult part of my life. But over the years I. I talked to him. Quite a few people. Including the prosecutors. Who took care of his cases and they actually encouraged me. To write a book. About this with the intention of perhaps I could empower. Many other women out there many other wives. Mothers. Professional. People. Who moved may find themselves. In the same kind of predicament that I was in. Thinking that you are married to somebody. Fun by your actually married to a turns out to be a con man when your your worst fears come true life with it it's. It's a devastating. Say like I cannot. It's it's it's almost difficult to put into words the humiliation. The embarrassment. Then ridicule. That I had to endure that my children had to indoor while they were going through high school and you know that can be very difficult time. And how old buffeted that the difficulties and but but but what it took in the end to try to overcome. What we went through. I would not wish that on my worst enemy. And then to try to still keep. A good face because of my job has. An anchorwoman as a journalist. Because our natural tendency when things happen like this is too. I hurried we want to hide wanna get away knowing your television. You can't you don't have any hiding space you cannot do that I had so many friends. Who said to me my word if it had I been in you're position I would have just curled up in a ball. I would have quit my job. I would have separated myself perhaps he can from my own family. I could not do that I could not do that for the sake of my two girls I could not do that because all of a sudden we went from a two income household to a one income household. So I had to keep things as normal as possible. Despite the fact that. These criminal cases worse so public. And I was working act. In a news department they could not ignore this either so these became. Major. Stories. What did you think about colleagues from other. Television outlets who linked to U. It's your husband and their reporting. I I knew it it was out of my hands that they were only doing their job as well I don't blame but them what do I complain any anybody for what they'd go for what they didn't how they covered it. As a matter of fact. In 2008 to win. Everything. Who was. When it came out in the news we were actually as a family we were actually out of state we were. Attending my niece's high school graduation. And I had heard that Cindy the competition was actually in our house doing life reports. Well who do you blame ass didn't I did he did printed found. I didn't think it was fair to move to put you in that situation because it. He didn't do here's what I was saying do anything right you know I'm saying. And it seems so terribly unfair to me that sometimes people are linked to their spouses and their spouses behaviors so abhorrent. And they're really just trying to keep it together as you mentioned attempting to keep the family together for the income. Boone was there a moment when you realized that I gotta get out of this related to end did you just grew even what did you do. I had to have strength. I had to have strength I ate I had to go on and and it's the first time around. Which was totally different from 2012. Remember ice supported this individual. I still loved this individual. I eight a up approached this whole. Crisis. Thinking that the prosecutors. Wanted to make a name for themselves because it involved Marie said Burke from channel sixteen. I think if you recall yourself. Back then you mentioned something on the air as well. And I took offense to it and I think I call due executed and we port and we have been friends. But I I contacted you. And I was very disturbed at what you said and you being the classy individual you are said Teresa. He notes thank you for calling in use in you were so gracious to me. But IE it if it was it was you know I had to support him now how far are you on the book. About almost halfway that's pretty good yes and I I think the most difficult part was the part that I just can't completed and the end of the hour of the Cannes is a great and I disagree that he wants a junior AD SU. And the other ones ready to graduate from on the American musical and dramatic academy in New York City no kidding what is what is her dream. Theater. None of them are going into broadcasting no no is our biggest relief as well we shouldn't let her. And then nobody goes into broadcasting I find that to be a big blessing at so we'll still end after the book I mean I'm sure he'll be out and about again and I know we're gonna have an opportunity to talk to. In the future Pope look cheered here desire for the future what would you like to do all mice. Find somebody really wealthy maybe a list know enough cushion and hospitalized or there's tons of doctors and they would love to yeah if yeah. Really we're thinking about it in terms of from what you can offer in the future suits. To a new generation of broadcasters or whatnot she you know. Sue may be I would I would like. To teach just maybe a couple of courses. Right now I'm freelancing for huge L health organization and the area a lot of an air raiding and ended developing contents for social media doing that now for businesses and corporations and knock. I have my. Former WNEP reporter anchor and producer Marie so Burke who signed off in October after a lengthy run and broadcasting. You're listening to special addition on Entercom communications. You're listening to special edition on intercom communications. Post advice and hand wringing. Earlier this week. President Donald Trump announced his pick of a jurist to replace supreme court judge Antonin Scalia judge Neil course say which of the tenth Circuit Court of Appeals in Colorado was the choice he'll face a challenging confirmation process any highly partisan environment we have the chance to speak to attorney David feeder who was a law clerk for judge course it should. They're very tough process usually applicants apply. They probably and then often you'll get in the interview requests and have to. I cross country ensure that it and he with the judge the meeting was rejected a bit intimidating because you're up then. A one hour or 20 but at the same interest certificate your skin in his meeting with you know an intellectual. Intellectual icon in front gate preserved for dates being federal judges are very important and very powerful people but just court it's me me. It used immediately in that interview we talked actually a lot of art and Marines are background where we're from. So I think you've really made it you will pressure to Mary situation. Did you fly across the country for the state absolutely. I looked at dean at Harvard and I got the invitation I think at the we noticed that flew out to Denver and you would suggestion to Europe and very dramatic to serve because the courts are clues. On a real life changing event I've never met anyone as Smart as George course which are there. Annual and has kind. Ethical or great mentor. Not to mention ability jurors and a great Ryder. I could really industry is all that. Well how did it take for them to say OK you can come out we accept you for this collection. Actually I was fortunate enough to get an offer all of this fire out in. The church property and are interviewing the operative need to come put crude. Yeah great and it does it to negotiate with pertinent church youth he would not let me except that on the spot which he's been normal etiquette usually project offered you a job you'd say yes. Immediately. There are questions that period. But it sort of insisted that I talked to my girlfriend and my family of quiet that it protecting it appeared that Arab and dirtier than to speak to the court. All the EU. Man is and how much here but it's clear from their relationships with people that are important to them and they're quite. A little bit about after you did except when you were there and what it was like what's your work was like what did you do and I'm sure that this came out with a great degree of pressure because it's my understanding. That law clerks write a lot of opinions and things like that and then it seems. A little bit intimidating so when we there and what did you do. I'll admit it is a bit intimidating to first start you know perhaps for halfway into the purchase or comparable. At the clip you mean dude you are repeat surgery and right so the first thing you do is look at the it factor priest and that you know arguments schedule. Three or four months and that's. And you write what's called a bench memo which is where you sort of analyze argument and indicate any suggested this petition so. The department is right at the department is power and sentiment which you can usually talks. The projections about to lose before argument you you like this sort of you all arguments and sort of worked been through so they don't care for argument and you know certain what changed perhaps some idea what became the zoning department. His argument your role in order seeking the first static trapped in an opinion. And then you go back and forth with the church many times during many strapped to buy the opinion do you sort of let it it is. The right hand man so to speak. During a lot of the researching wrecking the but you know obviously you keep very heavily involved in drafting his opinion it's kind of help mr. Christian always across ten years on the federal bench. He to my knowledge Dave he's known for. The clarity. Of his opinions the ease of understanding. Of his opinions and his his use of language I guess are the things that stand out can you address any of that with the work the you do it. Well that's all the judge should the courts trying indeed indicate that judges writing flare. And every once in awhile you thank you detected that you like but it's all they judge you just have brilliantly gifted writer. I think. Because you bet a lot he beat you divide the scooby Dickens believe it or not who want to become better record because you you thought. Beacons as is sort of the best Ryder Cup packed and you know he's very well first hand popped literature so he. You most quote friend who combat troops be. And other literary source in and philosophical sources. In terms of the qualities that the judge possesses so maybe. Outside the the core of me talked about his so lover of Reading his love of literature his flair for writing what else should we know about him as as we watch the miss some things come up about a menace confirmation and then you know that's gonna happen but what do you what my ear about him. So you think you're cute family man every week and I remember you're seeking his doctor stopped what they can't. Tablets are what is quite ease some very firm deep into very normal guy. I don't that you're temples how how could a person the judges. I told the judge is that I wasn't going home for Thanksgiving. When I was thirteen and he when he found out he insisted that Margaret Howe and spend time with and disorders make up for not being able he might family. Dinosaurs but battered not at all on carpet. In the clerks secondly. When you have at center visitor come. To Denver he pretty much says he better not be doing work you better be spending time with people that are really important to you your family girlfriend. Trend continues with a great person great human being very kind. He's also he's also an avid outdoorsman which is a lot of fun for the clerk. And we got an annual ski trip with the judge excuse the double black diamond believe it or not. People fanatics featured in we went out to a river up in the Colorado mountains in which official. We all put hooky from work one day which is what are the favorite memories of microchip. He looked a prelude to world to run he's he's a westerner. Sounds great now I don't know if he should send. To. The role on the Supreme Court how excited it will you be for that having. Known him personally spent time at his house. Had recreational activities with them it's gonna be like for you. Could not even putting it into words how excited I repeat. I felt because it. Has been a deeper darker longtime. But I think because he's out in Colorado you might have a little lower profile. In golf is very humble man he's very humble that's another thing I hit that we like that. So I think you didn't did you know the recognition. He deserves. And so I'm glad to keep board BUT independent ideas seem that he's done it's it's not an optical worked for ten years. And he just authorities in the recognition editors and you know on the Supreme Court. You'll be able to pick up with ideas in the public sphere which protecting. Who enjoyed it and put it I'll be beyond its site it and the church I cannot think more highly of him. And I spoke. Sergey keep in contact with them at all do you email back and forth occasionally I haven't spoken to him since the nomination I'm out here anymore and yet on the confirmation. Up until that we spoke bitterly. I was you know. Every month or two but I haven't Burton that the confirmation going to say that it. He's got a very good piece spiritual. But I'm looking forward Q. Speaking with and some general things calmed down. That's attorney David feeder. Who served as a law clerk for Supreme Court nominee Neil gore such you're listening to special addition on Entercom communications. You're listening to special edition on intercom communications. Posted vice who Henry. In a time when social justice is an ongoing concern it's important not to lose perspective of some of the advances that have been made in the past few decades author and boss some chronicles the 300 mile walk from Memphis to Jackson. Undertaken by three civil rights icon in a new book for young people the march against fear under the National Geographic imprint. I interest in history goes back to my childhood where I grew up and a historic southern town Lexington Virginia the daughter of history professor and during the pivotal period in the nation's history the 1960s and seventies so I witnessed a lot of history as a child I've come back to write about a fair bit of that and not been. And I continued to get to be compelled to do so let. Pleasure must be to have. A dad who's history teacher but I imagine that that there are times that you felt a little bit intimidated by the prospect did you ever have that issue showing your did your dad your book work is is he still living Laura wood did he know what you did. Yes he is he'll be 93 next month is he is historic in many ways himself and non he would it. Passionate European history so I had in mind in American history so. We've just always stand non quite. Happy to admire one another's work and non and he's been very supportive of what I've done and had an appreciation for the in my research that goes into a project like this. And when even when you're in for young people I don't I don't think the you can bypass certain things the research has to be done in a way where it's cracked and it's well formed so let's talk about dug the march against fear and we look back it's it's so easy for us to think about these historical characters the wonder and what was underneath the surface of some of them at the time and that did they know old that the work they were doing or indeed the events they were planning and their methodology. Of folk protesting. Did they know what kind of a lasting impact they had did you get a sense of that from from these individuals you write about this particular book. It in general having met historical figures and even perhaps in this situation. You don't know because then it and we need to remind ourselves that history is just yesterday current events and when we're in the midst of our current events we don't know yet what's going to have a lasting in part we may have an impact we may have inkling of that and we may think things are going to be remembered and then they're not the march against -- which took place to place in 1966. Through Mississippi came one year after the march from Selma to Montgomery Alabama that led to the passage of the voting rights act of 1965. And many people thought the march against Sierra would follow that and be likewise significant impact both celebrated commemorated. It would a much more challenging task logistically get it lasted 22 days instead of five and engine that made it a huge challenge it went through Mississippi. Which was won over arguably the most racist state in the union at that time and and yet it's largely been forgotten. In the street at this concept is someone some amazing because who wind you portray something. As a march against fear I think fear in all of our lives in it in situations to be the greatest paralyzed her. Of individuals who and when you put that in the title. Of the martian north against fear but add in on its surface. It didn't make any but he shy away because of the content of the march or do you embolden people that they wanted to get involved even knowing what you said at march to Mississippi. Which was slid off a hostile racist place. Well let me give a little background that the the march against fear did not start at the social justice protest it started. And one man's ambition. James Meredith whom many listeners may remember our paths have heard as they individual who integrated all myth. The University of Mississippi in 1962. And four years later he declared that he was tired of being afraid of white people and that he was going to fight that. Com that fear that he had grown up with as a black man in Mississippi. By walking through its home state. And he got out for Memphis which is on the border with Steve Jobs with Mississippi. And on the second day and bound for Jack and the capital the State Capitol and on the second day of its walk. He would they ambushed and shot. And he wasn't killed but he wasn't able to continue walking at that time. And that's when his walk against fear because that's what he called it. It evolved into the march against fear as the social justice protest. Picked up by a weird and and supporters of the civil rights movement who are determined to assure that. That violence did not stop. An act of nonviolence like trying to walk through year's state. And the methodologies sometimes used during the source movement never became an aunt from their own perspective for our. Understanding obviously Martin Luther teeing. Is that he did to preach a nonviolent approach whereas some of his. Counterparts. Is basically said there's there's only one way to do this and it is through. More violent means when these when these three individuals got together they write about in the book did they clash some philosophy. So there like there were a number of organizations in the civil rights movement at that time they often collaborated to gather and three of them. We bonded to to carry on this walk. Martin Luther King from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. Stokely Carmichael from the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and now. And although the flight mechanic from the Congress of Racial Equality cats and it you know it put any three organizations together and they're going to align in many ways but also have a different set and they knew that going again. On that thing that complicated the march against fear and it's one reason why it's it's. Such important and meaningful history to explore. In that part way through this since March in Greenwood Mississippi. At one of the regular evening rally that were held and every night. And it had participants camp then and kept going with Stokely Carmichael. Didn't newly. Named head of a pick that Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Game two what he is on it known that it black power speech and and it indicated. The great to have a share of the power that had men. Dominated by a though the white Knight majority especially in the south and at that many people interpreted. This. I'm the man. As a call for violence. That's not necessarily. What he intended. In there but that's certainly not something that. Martin Luther King what would have intended. But he created a controversy. During the march that allowed that the day. The focus and the messaging key is to get taken off track. When you eight extrapolate this on to the new world that we see today and we know that in our country there are. And struggles of honey still. And Tony seventeen. Do you see in in the people who protest today and I guess black I was matters the woman I think I'm off the top my hand. Do you see echoes of what started. In these marches and I'm other events in the 1960s. That is that EC history possibly repeating itself he mentioned. Well sometimes. As groups have a message in its misconstrued. Do you do you see any parallels there. I think there definitely are patterns that repeat themselves. I guess I would they rather than history repeating itself it's continuing to do. Try to complete itself and I think the black line that armed movement is. Completely picking up the legacy our our come in honoring that legacy of trying to bring empowerment to people who have been oppressed people who have been persecuted on people who've been forgotten. And at some people low have a picture of when this movement that is nervous less than flattering and they point to. Messages that are given and and your responses. To those messages and that would be any kind of acts. Vandalism. Or. Violence that Sadr and we Knoll that sometimes people do send a message and there's an unintended consequence. Such as there is violence. That the springs out of this what what how you message to individuals in a modern movement. To make sure that. Their message is not misconstrued and that it did that it's consistent I mean in terms of what we see because you've seen yourself to that sometimes. Intentions start out one way and they get out of control so what do these so modern movement speakers need to do in order to get their followers. Two get choked up positive reaction it instead of a negative one. Well I'm not a John. Strategist for our for social change and I'm and I think it did not a but I would suggest that it's important for. An organization to remain focused on its its core values and not be taken off message. By other groups or individuals who who may see benefits and they Andy railing yet. That's Anbar some author of the march against fear a new book for young people published by National Geographic you are listening to special edition. On Entercom communications. Thanks for listening to special edition. A weekly look at these issues in the news and the personalities shaping historians.