Welcome back from Corbett -- -- the WYLK. -- am 103 point one FM. On this gloomy rainy. During which the public viewing all the US army specialist they'll -- low. Continues as we speak on going until 7 PM later today I will be speaking if the connection. Is as promised with a representative from the west Borough Baptist Church. Who in a press release. Threaten to make their appearance known at the funeral mass tomorrow morning at saint John the evangelist church not just today. We spent considerable time for hours trying to sort through the -- amount. Opposed by a group of radical. Religious zealots. Who believe hey how about the precious freedom. To use the savage. Criticism and and horrible electrical wiring waged too in salt and the frame the memory all of this. Soldier who died in the service of this country. It's a very beautiful called. Situation for many people to understand how could they be allowed to say such things. How could they be allowed to protest -- military funerals why can't we stop them. We've talked in the past about how democracy. Truly is a messy business. We've talked about how the First Amendment -- is a cornerstone of that very democracy. How the First Amendment protects. Speech. Even in its horrific forms in fact that's probably the priority. Reason for the first amendment's existence so that. One form of speech is an accepted in another form of speech for political reasons or otherwise is. -- were rejected. That's why -- called for Mary Catherine roper -- the American Civil Liberties Union Mary Catherine roper an attorney with the ACLU in Philadelphia. Because sometimes we have to call the experts to explain to us exactly what the First Amendment does protect and that. That's why we invite Mary Catherine roper talk with -- us thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule. Hello I'm always glad to stocky -- Now we've got dilemma here in the in the sense that. Pit bull are outraged that anybody would dare comb through. True saying that the rule commercial full statement that these church members are known for saying. At funerals for military members why does the First Amendment thus far protect that kind of speech. Well at the reason is of course that this is people who say things that other people agree US companies the first -- Right the only people in need the first -- and other folks stirring up controversy. And they don't seem to folks who have stirred up controversy in the history of our country. People who wanted to go and play great for people who wanted to keep playing very good people who wanted to women to have the right to vote. People who wanted to get rid of Jim Crow and and segregation systems all over it and so all of the country. People who wanted to do. I protest against the Vietnam War he actually -- can be disrespectful of the troops protest against boring had to be disrespectful of the troops. People who who are anti -- like the west Borough Baptist change people who are pro game liked -- of that district. Like I had their few people who who upset other people more -- and the pro life protesters out there with their pictures of important people there's. That's the point and said. So if you can't pay something strong leads. -- how do you have any freedom of speech as far as we're concerned the answer to that this kind. Ugly. And it's and horrible. I statement is more speech it. And that's why we're having these discussions on the air yesterday and today to meet and I made it very clear. The best way to pay tribute. After the loss of dale cradle all the best way to honor his family. And their tragic loss of -- for all of us to engage. In the thoughtful discussion for us. Not know what. Zealots -- pressing our buttons and cause us to -- to overreact to lose control to want to shut them down and stifle them the best way to honor. The loss is by rising to the occasion admitting that challenge and talking about it. I don't absolutely true I mean that's that's serviceman died first American freedoms. And it would be. I really for a tribute. He used his death at their -- and it's cutback. On this street and Steve and these young women -- men women and men and women don't like they are dying for and the -- know what they're sacrificing for an IA. Face you know -- in the pulled up having -- someone the last thing he needed someone in your case saying Powell and untrue things about them. -- -- Let's hit and it and that's why you can turn away that's why does that change show up and stand between the families and the west Borough Baptist Church. -- protesters choose to protect and confirmed the grade. But this this. This is the and important and it really important part of our country we don't decide whose speech is. Is protected in his speech isn't protected according to what they -- Should the west Borough Baptist Church are masters of deceit they know full well what the protection isn't couple and their pressure release. They actually -- -- -- -- did say that specialist -- Gave his life for the constitutional. Right of west Borough Baptist Church to warn America to deny us our first amendment rights is to declare to the world. That specialist. Three blow died in vain they know what they're doing. -- they get mean and and doing mr. and a that they are protective care professional protest it. And they know their rights and they eating their right and there are a lot of people who know their rights and are even merits and by the way. There are a lot of people saying the same kind of things -- the west Borough Baptist Church that I mean Jerry Falwell as -- as perhaps you're the first person to say that 9/11 was God's punishment upon this. Country for permitting homosexuality. And and cancellations and other things he's got pretty -- But I if we don't have room for them. It's hard to say that they're gonna guess there's gonna be room for slightly face something that people disagree with us. I had a gun or or write a comment on my FaceBook fan page today asking why we can't just to make it illegal. To protest military funerals and I responded. That the Taliban have made it illegal to protest -- band Urals do we want to be like them. -- that's the -- you know that's a great point. And but it also did a long tradition of protesting. Military things -- I mean beyond all all the anti war movement -- agree with them are not -- thinking that you agreed that people. -- can't speak out about this very important public. A public issue. And in fact the west Borough Baptist Church in talking about how to. And issued -- is. In the public debate does the rights of gay people as well as those. It's of them they connected with this or are these wars. And it does not everybody who gave you can debate in it either civil or. Think the question passion. And what we need to do is to respond quick takes three cents. And today it if it TE your ugly -- did not take your point is that shouldn't disappoint and frankly. It's the media didn't pay so much attention to hit them. And they wouldn't even get kids -- good start after which is attention. But see I'm always argued that I want to know why they do what they do I want to question them that's why I'm. I have a member of the church the supposed to talk to me this afternoon I need to ask her questions such as. You act on behalf of god your -- a merciful god. I have questions because I'm interested in what motivates the mean that's what motivates the cruelty because. She is part of America she represents a part of America that is reprehensible. In many ways. What she is is in many ways. Not I don't believe EA CLU has anything to do with the case that was heard and in oral arguments. In October with regard to this church I don't know if you filed any kind of out of an amicus brief for anything like that but what can we expect to hear. From the United States Supreme Court with regard to this particular case with the west Borough Baptist Church. Well you know nobody -- support what details what we know that they will be guided the Ford GM and I would expect that they will decided this. Before that. The deal if I -- laying that I I would say very early in 2011. But that's that's really get where are we know for sure is that we will get -- -- before the end of GS. Is it true that even conservative justices are less inclined to tamper with the First Amendment right or do you believe that might change nowadays. I'm an infant I think that conservative justices. Tend to be very strong dependence. The First Amendment right to free speech it was chief Justice Roberts it was you know appointed body. President Bush. Crude rose good decision in the most recent -- -- speech case in front of the United States Supreme Court and that was the case is about animal cruelty videos. And I and he wrote a very strong. Free speech opinion saying that as striking down the government. Decriminalization. Of animal cruelty videos and he said we are not in the business of creating. New categories of forbidden speech. We clear and they have different from protecting freedom of speech. IQ you actually made reference to this this. Yearning for media attention. When this case was argued in in the Supreme Court in October. One of the issues that dead. Came up in the discussion. Was whether or not the church was simply using these tragic circumstances of a military funeral to -- -- maximum publicity for its message. And it Justice Roberts asked doesn't make a difference this Schneider was selected for targeting by the church. Not because of oil was -- because it was a way to get maximum publicity for your client's particular message. And the attorney for the church said the basic. We have there were entitled to do just that in America. Plus -- react -- -- -- -- -- if if you Leo -- you hold a demonstration if you want some of these detentions and she's Gilligan the most public way possible what the Baptist Church. Deterred decades before they hate got around to protesting at military funerals. They carry the same ugly nasty -- the funeral for people who died of aids. And they would protest outside is. You know gay and lesbian community foundation things like fashion. I'm not enough people seem to care about that because they were only targeting gay people. I think stopped that's when -- -- meaning and they start this country started turning it into. Fundraisers and -- would hold a shell protons and people would pledge and then next. -- I mean like a dollar attend college -- something for every minute that the west Borough Baptist Church with outside the community center or outside that person funerals. And the money would go to local -- content. I'm I think that's when Nazareth are bad situation and they needed to find a new way. That's rising to the challenge that's using the ingenuity of free thought and free speech. To rise to that challenge with more speech in in the face of the hate speech. So it's it's clearly a dilemma for for many people but it it provides us with an opportunity to test if you will. Although our democracy -- -- should if you want freedom and most people say they do. How prepared are you for freedom when it comes your way. Well either right and you know and the question is. You don't have to listen to them is they haven't -- don't have to agree with them you can certainly disagree with them. But. It -- there have been injured so many people threatened with prosecution for speaking in our country. Yeah I've tried that and take every important political question that has ever come down the -- Found someone had said -- you can't even ask us. So calm and in this country the answer is yes I can scan you can get good -- -- -- but I can say. Well I know there were a whole lot of loyalists who would love to shut down Paul Revere when he was riding around Boston -- the British are coming. And I'm glad that he opened his mouth Mary Catherine -- Yeah I think we all -- states. Thanks so much real time it's always good to know you're there to help us understand what we are and what we stand for -- thank you Mary Catherine roper from the American Civil Liberties Union. Okay we'll take a break and we'll be back -- true. Play listening to WYOKAM. 103. Point one FM Mary Catherine roper is a very bright and warrior for the American Civil Liberties Union. Many of you don't like the American Civil Liberties Union but if you listen to what she said and if you didn't know -- She represented. She makes a whole lot of sense. Back during America's. Fight for freedom. There were people arguing that the slaves should be free. There are people arguing that the -- should not be free. We need the argument we need to debate. When we return after Paula -- -- with local news we shall continue. That debate. But conversation in our community as a part of our tribute. In living the legacy. -- -- -- -- -- -- Rest in peace who better listen. Things welcome back on the court -- you're listening to WYOK. And I am 103 point one FM Shirley Phelps roper. Is a member of the congregation of west Borough Baptist Church. In Topeka Kansas that church we've discussed yesterday and today. Because of the press release I read yesterday. -- on the web site for the won't west Borough Baptist Church announcing that they indeed. Would be coming out to be memorial to the funeral mass of US army specialist -- -- blow who was killed in Afghanistan last week the church saying yesterday. They would be there to protest. Because god hates America and is killing our troops and has -- Shirley Phelps roper thanks so much for calling the show for talking with us are you in your community are you in -- yet. And no and actually in my I was that the kingdom has soldier's funeral and Marilyn did yesterday and I just got home. A little bit ago. So I looked I looked a third church website and I'm not able to find the press release I found yesterday hasn't been removed. I know. But there's you know more press releases going up all the time needed that can go down you know follow down the the way it or not they're not removed ever removed. Or are you coming to -- into more. Well not me personally but we've seen this coming there is already on the life. OK so your team is in route to Princeton for the protest tomorrow what what is your preparation. What can we expect to see you do when you get there. What I think the question looking back then that kind of people you'll ever meet in this first standing on a public right away with the word of god on some Packard. Obedient to the laws of god in his blog that man. And -- I'm telling you just just telling you don't use -- they have great. -- destruction is -- but even though you cannot except for the country. Mr. wrath of god it's pouring out on your head that is going to do what -- ultimately result. In full complete on pocket land vomit you out instructions. And so but you -- Kevin Everett I'm told any person who will tear the order that word of god Obey him today. Put away your idol -- false god it yourself a matter of life. Official do you believe -- ever meant hitting it might show do you believe that their bed god it singled out dill green globe. And struck him -- in Afghanistan. As a way to show America it's evil ways with regard to tolerance for abortion and for homosexuals. Well that's just two of debt and the volume of crimes that are committed daily by the station Troutman. Proud intended -- and rebellion now and it's not just that young man got a hold your breath of life in his hand. Every one of the young people that are being cut off by god in all the different ways. But a particular focus on your army he says is furious with those army I need -- shall not kill. Okay now when you come to town will you be bringing mostly women and children how many people will show up tomorrow. Yeah depend on the scene and attacking tomorrow got street and there's three beach street Gmail -- -- Theme that was then Oklahoma. Get it all the other day. Was two women and four children in nineteen yesterday. For I had three I have eleven children on some of -- ground and try not and I. When you bring children are these these little kids because -- crude -- leaves behind. -- 9 year old twin daughters do you do bring small. I have my eight year old son goes with me regularly in fact last year he I was there. Most traveled first that he was in -- I'm not. Soon do you believe in anyway surely that what you do to your child when you bring your job to was setting like that is tantamount to child abuse. DIA. If you believe -- child abuse singing teacher child that god is a liar and that his commandments are on the table for disposal lecture will embrace the -- on inch cake. I don't have and he did children and I'll play another -- I don't have any children with at and TV don't broken hearts or grade problems crime problems -- drug problems they're alive they're glad at least. Simple at least they may your god saying isn't the best I publish to the best of your knowledge nor is this. No because you're not a bad in my knowledge and this mother knows there -- children of god a just god the merciful god. Think he is just and there is no mercy for the under attendant. There are no forgiveness without repentance. Additional let me ask you this end and I have no doubt that you believe what you state. Does this does this line that I'm about to speak do you mean anything to you surely goodness and mercy. Shall be entitled to our. Yeah credit because he can't. I won't have mercy on whom I will have mercy and my little I pardon. Nodded and -- you gonna pour out -- -- -- mercy upon us. Okay so my god but not USG human. -- you exhibiting mercy to the family of a deal pre blow to his children. I'm absolutely it's the only -- either they don't murky and lying to people all I'm talking to people who are still alive. -- you are responsible you're not community every adult whoever the -- life she is responsible. For him being dead and in hell at this hour and there is not one bit of mercy in any of you my god -- pouring out on you. Isn't there a better time to do it isn't isn't it merciful. To give them their grief that moment when they're in the church. Until we got -- -- don't go in and just how good morning with them. In fact at this hour. His commandments to the people would need going to destroy that nation when he pouring out his rap on him -- -- like you doing to this country and it's only gonna get worse. He is too broad -- Harkin says over -- that's C. Don't you go and born with those people. They did get they talk a child a -- is a liar shakeup is how that is the commandments and got her on the table for disposal they're well he didn't get to the child. Okay so. As crisis hanging on the cross what price say what did Christ say to god the father. One saying that -- -- Forgive them father for they know not what they do correct. And you are being do you believe not hit. Ball moved -- only. Change that couldn't standard of god I'm whipping out one statement that you can take out of context. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- It's not I can't. Contacts at all do you leave that could apply to -- -- -- look at what I know it meaning that he's saying but you're not all of them -- I'm gonna -- don't forget you. You leave. That statement could apply to yield on the words Mickey your role and have you ever given thought. Are you worried about maybe you are wrong and the -- -- -- condemned the internals of them they shouldn't. Of course I'm always concerned about angering the lord my god in fact. -- -- -- -- It causes me every day to get up and go forward and use every fiber of my being every resource at my disposal. Just serve the lord my god according to the big cake on his word. You're gonna crap shoot my ear. So yes of course -- worry about that but I'm not worried about whether I'm wrong about this because I can read and you can read and you should read those words that are written in the book. He fed battled Kampman and all those words about. What -- what those people get to bring Iraq and got down on their had been caused. The destruction of the anti dilute it more all the -- bottom. The destruction of Israel the Babylonian captivity. You know -- OK. Why did that work. Think bottom what you think about what you know about Tom OK sold a lot -- saying it that that mechanism that god uses and the -- you mold -- they say. I'm not change he says I don't change from age age to age and the ancient of days and my word is never going to pass away. Don't worry Rudy doesn't worry you don't doesn't worry you that you're just plain mean. Pop meet would be a final goodbye and agreed with you on your lies -- -- would be if I raise my children for the double. I was sitting over here with the budget get children's. There's a passable. Cannot -- this what is the possible. Did you -- the fallen angels did you represented the double -- Because you know you don't have to add those affected by it can get a crapshoot. You can read the word -- written in the book just like we can read the words that are written in the -- -- -- it can get all up in the air. The problem -- the god when he kept I kept -- a blessing it occurred. I'm lumping it you'll Obey the commandments of god it occurred to you won't get all your children not before they're happening what are happier days they're over. Yeah and don't principal. You got to get child I don't have -- children. That's why I conduct my business did that but that's old school ordered there are parents are right. I won't have mercy on them. Okay. Not to let you go all and may the lord have mercy -- near -- Thank you thank you we'll be right back after this break. The agency can put you in touch with a counseling agencies you listen to WYOK am 103 point one FM. We just heard from the west Borough Baptist Church. I believe we needed to hear what Shirley Phelps roper had to say. It strengthens my conviction. Drew my commitment to -- the legacy of goodness and mercy. It strengthens my commitment to stand -- boldly in the face. Although her religious zealot trade it strengthens my commission. To live the legacy. Of goodness last time by dale cradle -- let's -- the Leslie Leslie calling from -- then. You're on the -- -- I see it. I'm I'm I'm very happy that you were able to get her on the -- -- it's my husband and some friends of ours were friends with dale in high school. And I also work and it's church with youth and children and yes. I am happy that could be -- voice her opinion I'm glad chief of China battered face. But that's not the god that I known and that I eight feet or any occasion that I know arms and that and the church each. He is the god of mercy and don't forget next here -- content and it's wonderful that her children never. Went through any difficult things -- she would never faced with the need for quality person never had to forgive anybody for anything. Virtually incapable of advertising with somebody but that's not the god that I know words the Bible that I didn't reading. I'm also there's only interpretation you read the Bible and you're able to feed and so many different ways. Com but the interpretation that I get is not fast so I just hope for the family safe -- content that they are able see the community. For how much. How much thanks for glad and grateful that we are for the soldiers and for -- for going out for our country and -- giving -- safes and com and that's pretty much tonight opponents contend and think that handling and I hope tomorrow. That all the people that that they sell. Ball over over our. Leslie that's the whole point of talking with her of listening to her she in my opinion is clearly a very troubled woman. And she in my opinion. Who resents. The message of goodness and as a result and I'm not trying to diagnose chart here. But as a result should be used. Hatred should be used cruelty. And I don't think she had a ready answer for the questions dealing with a merciful god I don't think she had a ready answer when he came to whether. She might be wrong and she might be the one hadn't -- that downhill slope of the eternal damnation. Right and I'll be honest I I teach the Bible I have I'm not perfect I know that -- as we try to get the -- readings of -- Bible -- I had answers for our children they're gone by can interpret it as a policy is interpreted as I don't think there is a perfect interpretation of let these guys if even put the come down -- gotten the come down a helmet that's what he can. Felt that way but it's bad and they went from the -- -- that is exactly what was meant by -- it's. Because that's that he is unless those specific people or to come down and say that you're really never gonna get a perfect interpretation. See what what her. Discussion with me also provided. Was an opportunity for you for me. To recommit. No -- to recommit. To compassion forgiveness usual big word when you talk about forgiveness and we who really. To be brave and strong to rise to that challenger for goodness and I don't want to sound like some preacher myself but. Sure you listening turn in -- listening to the hatred she espouses. Helped me recommit. To that legacy of goodness left by Dell -- while they should give you the same opportunity and you rose to that challenge. So goodness can come on people. Right. I truly believe and my husband I'm having -- conversation at dinner last night I think the community. And general. That we always pulled together and the coal valley always pulled together and typical crime and -- for the fact that so many people are able to see. What do what's behind -- motivations and everything and got. How many could not come out just even in the -- anti protest I think that just shows how much. See how much this love and commitment everybody in this valley has worried other. CN yesterday and today in in standing in line to pay my respects to it to Dell creek -- in listening to you and listening to other people. I'm seeing. That we've already won so they. Have not even come close. To. Breaking -- -- And tomorrow is a great day of reckoning in many ways and tomorrow is the day we must be on our best behavior. -- exactly and that's and considered a congregation member who'd also friend sent me yesterday she said I just hope that and peacefully and nothing bad happens to monitor and I have to I have to do in my heart believe that I don't I don't think it would it and peacefully I would. Truthfully believe that since everybody will see so peaceful and happy. -- -- -- For the family and the friends. That's that's that's just what we hope to do that's exactly what we hope to do that's why we're talking about this the way we're talking about this today Leslie thanks so much for thinking -- for parent. Thank you haven't been -- -- We're coming up -- 530 Paula -- here with local news all the lines are lit I need to talk to all of you I need to hear from all of you. Because we are all. In this together. You better listen.