But I wanted to talk with Mary Catherine roper a little bit about what rights occupiers -- And thank you so much for calling the show Mary Catherine roper. Are -- at chuck EF well once again we find yourself from the situation I'm -- com. Manning occupy Scranton because at least there's a lot of them well and a whole lot of other encampments throughout the United States. Cannot say the same but my confusion here is that. Trying to figure out what. Rights occupiers. All public land especially since this group and Scranton applied for -- -- shoot the permit actually was receiving electricity from -- another department is expiring tomorrow. They're worried they're not corner of the permit renewed can you give us a little bit of help with us. Killer I mean it's public property is is straight their first the public right and it's. We do have some rules about. It permits and cell line up when you are shocked when you are you keeping a public property that they can get other people can't use that so you know it's not. But any kind of reasonable if you got a bunch of people camped out a place. Ask them to get a -- but permit should only be denied Ford true. Health and safety reasons and and I think he you said you told me that. Says. Chief of police thinks that it says safety problem that he can't see inside the occupiers can't. He's the sheriff yeah yeah yeah. Think that's -- that's -- called your right to privacy right you can't see inside people's homes in the side people's bags you can't inside people's cars -- And attacking don't have a wait -- looked inside any of those things unless you have. Probable cause -- And and in many seconds -- that the warrant right it's so they've -- Not saying I usually in the long about police there's not being able to see inside your personal space. Unless they have really good reason to think there's a wreck it it's illegal activity going on in there. They don't have any business to look at and factor personal -- so. -- worry is that if the sheriff who comes up with this. The rationale. Shows up tomorrow and uses this rationale much concern is. That he occupier show very little support very little backup if they don't have an attorney on the sink. I'm sad that it has been actually one of the problems we have had with these occupations for instance. In Allentown. So we made a deal I mean I made a deal with the assistant. Police chief said they were allowed to have ten -- this and that and then the police show up one night at midnight. With an order saying you can't have to -- any more and few hours later cleared out all the tents. Oddly enough I was that comment at. And has not really able to do much about the situation because these things are being. Handled in a way to avoid public scrutiny. In a way to avoid any kind of court challenge it's better at. I can't tell you say. This doesn't sound like a reason. At someone's. Permit can be denied. The but more importantly each and if they don't have a permit to have -- there. They're entitled to be there and protesting quit there without a permit to. You don't need a permit to go stand on the courthouse square right we -- signed rides and eat and eat your point of view. And and so -- that's. Not something that in our country eat -- is I know some Paper with some bureaucrat in order to be able to do it. Schiavo argued did send and that's why that's why I appreciate you taking some time let us because I argued it. And I'm not an attorney but but I've argued you'll -- to show up want courthouse square -- you're. With your sign or or or with your your just your residence. Food to redress grievances against government to peacefully assemble. What traditionally show up all by yourself cannot argue did you don't need any kind of permission. From the government you've already got permission from the government is the First Amendment right. -- and that's right at two point yeah you're talking about fifty people are on a small square. Then the government can say get a permit so we know what we're dealing with -- but if you'd say I'm kind of a sitting there -- it's. We now know there aren't there but this is probably the most orderly well captain. The heat encampment in the -- Occupy Movement they've got 1:10. That access. Central clearinghouse. For information and then there -- maybe five or six smaller tents. And as a woman who called the show earlier complained. They've basically clash with the decor as she doesn't want to have to look at them and I explained you know there are neighborhoods -- -- used to be all white all Irish. And there are people who are complaining about. People -- all white and all Irish clashing with the decor of tradition but you can't do that you're not guaranteed that. You know wet if you wanna live I say -- is still find and all a community that reflects. All the things that you want to community address flat and not leave it. -- -- entitled to do that but when you are talking about the public square and that is paid for by all of us taxpayers. And eight and is supposedly there to serve the people. And then it's not about what he's creepy. -- has stepped practices and the Supreme Court has this beautiful passage and in one of its. It's -- talking about public squares and parks have -- Time without memory. Being committed to do among other things the expression of bit of what people think and feel about to edit and political convictions and -- launch. That's one of anything you have public squares and -- as I understand most people think that they are there to look pretty. But in -- But part of that are strong tradition. Is and that we have public spaces show we can have public speech. That's the whole point and I I die if I counseled if you will. Some of the occupiers today and I said look you've got to use your heads. If the police com if they order you to move. Your best bet is probably cooperate regroup and try to get a lawyer who will argue your case but they said stay nonviolent. Don't get confrontational to the point where you get locked up unless of course you wanna get locked up then that's a whole other issue. But now I'm until a little bit bad because. A couple of weeks ago I actually went -- a lot -- no law practice -- tried to persuade. The partners in the firm. -- to take an interest in social justice issues. And walked over to occupy Scranton this -- maybe there's something that they could do. Actually I've been told that that word that at least one of the lawyers went over and talked with some of these occupiers so hopefully they'll -- Have some legal representation. If this comes to a head tomorrow. I I hope so an aspect they can call -- do. That age I gotta tell you gave I eight. It's on all of them bright but. We've seen a tremendous. Response. From Haifa Layton law firms and not so -- in law firms. Helping us protect people's rights. We. Do we have what we called you know volunteer attorneys they're cooperating -- -- Heroes. Like favorite. All the time and guy you know it's it's really terrific when the credit card. Stand up for people to -- Here's here's my ulterior motive because I wasn't seeing how -- grip on the great family local law firms try to make it because I didn't see the presence in Scranton. I thought at least if I could make you aware what's happening at least we have a connection to the outside world in any event that it closes in on a share. -- at night and I appreciate the heads up. And video we'd love to work with the occupier -- with the -- actually different than the last. I and protect people's rights and of course there are limits almost -- they want public problems that the point is it's supposed to be there for everybody here. But. It one of the things it's supposed to be there for its street speech. Absolutely and we're we're gonna show anywhere where in the midst of an ongoing federal public corruption scandal that has thus far. Resulted in more than thirty. Elected and appointed -- government public officials and government contractors mostly pleading guilty. -- -- Violations of the public trust our -- for cash scandal was here so when you have people on a public square calling attention to veterans who -- jobs. Calling attention to people who lack health care calling attention to poverty and other inequalities. I think the world pretty firm ground what is your real quick. Here's the other advice I gave -- when the weather is real called you might want to think about occupying -- Rome where a trial was taking place where you can be public citizen -- of the process and you have every right to sit in every trial that you want to stick your hand it took so I think that's alleged did you -- walking with your occupies Scranton T shirts. Let people know you're still engaged in the system let people know that you -- watching to hold the elected and appointed public officials accountable. That's a legitimate tactic don't know. It's a great idea at LA and very. Are more restrictions -- -- court Grammy can't hold a -- sign that the courtroom and things like that but -- Absolutely. You have a right to be watching what's going on in that courtroom then it's maybe a courtroom -- there's. Public corruption trial going on Eric may be a courtroom where it and you feel the most money gained criminal defense. Trial going on and maybe he would like to see firsthand. How justice works. Or just. Say I think most people might be a little surprised at what Stacy. Well that's exactly right and and that's exactly why we got a string gauge is exactly why we have to keep track of what our rights. Involve it's why we have to depend on each other look out for each other and we -- part of a system that's this year for us to use and the that's my concern so if something comes down tomorrow I know how to get in touch with you Mary Catherine roper. -- It's always are so it was good to talk to you thanks for your expertise your wisdom and help. Absolutely okay take care of our she goes Mary Catherine roper great hero of the ACLU.