We have Debbie you're not -- -- York's. Who wrote the perfect score project morning Debbie good morning -- -- tell us about your quest stuff you're a single mother of two teenagers it seems like -- And we're talk and John -- the for a while we are younger there wasn't quite. The mad that you know dashed to try to help so much for someone to do well on this test but it's very competitive now. Yeah it's a much different landscape and it was when we just attacked I just because the first time in 1980 Q and hardly anybody could test prep at that point. Now you're really expected to prepare for the task is an international Plainfield now. The task is an hour longer than it used to be they added a writing infection and 2005. And you know that extra hour of having to focus is a killer. Now and you took the -- at times did you taking -- big -- since that 1980 her death as well. I went back in 2011. And I chipped it seven times which is every time it's offered in the area and I tried out different I think location. I tried different methods to test prep and I wanted to sort of way a consumer report on what works and what does. -- -- so -- the book gets really into depth about that -- what it now do when you took a seven different times did you score vary a -- so do some things really work better than others. They do and it's really the funny thing is the first person I met with -- Debbie it's not that complicated you get the blue book which is the official college -- blue book. And you work your way through the blue book. And of course that seem to wage is simple to me at the time of the multibillion dollar industry based on how proper -- no way it could be as easy as that. And in the end I'm gonna say human right that's what it is is being methodical is taking. Feel having a nice song runway cramming did not work for the past -- wanna have. A look serious runway and you have to methodically worked your way through the College Board material take full time capturing -- -- And make sure that you understand your mistakes so well that you could teach you teach your teacher before you go on and take another does. Well you know there are people who say I just don't take tests well so I'm guessing along with all the information that's in the perfect score project the emphasis is on as you just mentioned the. -- I mean I'd could be considered one of those people who didn't take the path to I mean there's you know but I didn't go I mean if they can get a little bit. Controversial may be sure certain people take up better than other people but in other cultures they don't say I don't test well or I'm not good at math may say I didn't work hard enough times so I do believe that anybody can do it. That it takes a little or most people -- like it takes to feel more apt -- for some people that it does perhaps for others but. I couldn't tell I don't have twelve would probably for most people mean you know. If I didn't prepare did exactly -- so well how old long before your student takes the test should they start preparing I mean how long of a process isn't. -- you know everybody's different and it is based on it where -- star and at what your goal lead and how much are you willing to put and I'm gonna say the average students should prepare for a school year just on the FHA. Some students don't need to go for that long and something could probably stand to do it longer than that. But I would say is a nice it's a nice comfortable one life. I'm now -- all the test all the times you've taken the test and all the research you've put into writing the perfect score project. Tommy asked the from the the difference between the first time you took the test and the last time you took the test in terms of score did you improve. I did the College Board says that the average score game after test prep it's five to twenty point. I increased my score break 330 point oh I'll have my son increase his power buy 590. Point. All yeah I -- did not -- it absolutely does -- -- location of the tasks now third. Yeah it -- I tried out all sorts of different locations and I will say that. You know the fancy private school which I thought all of course I'm gonna take it to the fourth seeded at schools -- and that turned out to be the worst tasking experience for me because it took place in the gym. And it echoed in the -- and different people Oregon passing at different times so there were a lot of and they had those little armchair desk which is not large enough to how is all the -- so you wanna be in a classroom. I you know I can get one of New York city's. -- intercity schools and that was my best tasking experience they had in the classroom. That students were quiet as -- church mice and it was a very enjoyable experience and by the way I did my best when it hit the -- -- just my. We want to minimize -- Extract OK so Frank's seat big gap and is the perfect score project is this a book for parents to -- and then then the teach their children about it or is this more students. You know it's really I wrote it for parents but I get a lot of emails from students saying that -- air reading -- -- so. You know I'm surprised by that but I'm excited by that there. It says it the hybrid so it I think he information everything you would ever want to know about the past and test -- and it's also about my journey as a mother. Of learning how to motivate my kid because about halfway through I realized. -- on the test prep in the world it was a moot point if I couldn't figure out how to motivate campaign and so picky about my journey about a motivating him and how to connect with him. While so what really almost some advice in this -- grateful for parents and grandparents. A -- be steer the perfect score project thanks for being with us and giving us your tips -- And so you know all about we were talking before the things we remember from school the slope of the staggering in -- him. Every why you won't let it -- let me know you all -- one half so we lost I guess her next interview starting as she does have a common.