WILK News Radio>Audio & Video on Demand>>2-23-14 Paranormal Science

2-23-14 Paranormal Science

Feb 28, 2014|

Features Lucid Dreaming, Astral Travel and Out of Body Experiences with Special Guest, Mark Stavish, author of "Between the Gates".

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

-- -- -- -- -- Okay. -- Okay. And good evening everybody welcome to another Sunday night of paranormal science I'm more guys with Joseph -- and -- search. Hope everybody's having a good Sunday. You know I wanna start out again throwing -- my challenge if you guys we're listening in last weekend. I threw challenge out there to all preachers pastors anybody -- club face off. We think getting a lot of reports from some of our clients that they indeed ask for the church to come in -- calling this to help them with -- blessing or maybe clear some spirits out and there haven't really tough time of getting people to come out so. -- I'm I'm challenging everybody you know faced any priests pastors rabbis I don't care we are native Americans who. Are involved in this type of thing you know please contact me market the PBA dot net we want to hear from you win and try to get your onboard with us with. Getting out there and helping people. And our guys one more thing I wanted to. To bring up -- this kind of serving the public service announcement sort of effect I just happen to find out on my own here comes. There's a lot of people out there who suffer from migraines in us on the -- cluster headaches which or. You'll referred to a super migraines or sometimes suicide headaches because they get so bad. And unfortunately I'm familiar with those I get those and just doing some online researching and -- -- I'm also working with doctor but doing some online research. I found out that caps -- come actually. Helps relieve these headaches again that's found in like pepper spray it's it's done. From the the pepper spray -- opera fans. I had something at home already that it's called sign -- and you can get it hadn't been like all natural source health stores so homeopathic. Nasal spray. And it contains caps come in their earnings of what the heck he's yelling and try to a lot of people. Had a lot of good reports. From the reviews I read. And you know just a few -- so my nose literally within ten minutes gone. I it was great huge huge relief income people get disease can last up to three hours. And it really feels like somebody's driving -- -- poker way to rewrite into the vacuum and in some -- And you know if you're out there and you know anybody who has migraines or. Pick any problems are related with a severe headaches. Does have to be cluster headaches but say it's any kind of think really the migraines in clusters. Really knocked it out in in ten minutes welcome -- it's I know it's called. If you look at open Internet from a short from facts are -- up. Yeah yeah unfortunately there. So much for them and that's a -- and -- Well I'm very excited about tonight's topic this is something that a Lotta Lotta people have interest in. And I think it's because of the although we talk about some some topics that some people find really hard to grasp. This is something that. Relates to a lot of people I think as most people have dreams and most people do you know I want some liberals say they've had some really bizarre dreams and some so. Realistic they thought that was really wake up and have a hard time saying well that's just happen or not. And you know we're going to be talking about Astro projection lucid dreaming. And out of body experiences into. I myself I've had a and experience and John W yeah I mean. Again I know -- Arnold as soon as part of the show but. -- commission on the show earlier com learn different -- well but when I was child I remember -- laying on the couch -- just let your mind go daydreaming you know. And I remember seeing myself playing Marilyn Kelly if I was on the ceiling itself and I look up and and be there saw -- doesn't. Overactive imagination as a child or fashion was able to do this and of course just -- -- throughout you know the years and just calico. But I'm. The oddly I was probably before double digits like Josh Kelly child maybe 67. Like a little remember there I'm like good little Superman not Arabs are Spiderman -- crossing a mom do the dishes come back you know from my body -- we're reminded that. -- -- -- I Jews were bloated but how much like how old's bloated look like my -- I don't know I mean -- won't. And I think oh here comes an accounting invention patent and you don't go there much. -- emotional -- imagination like I said as a child or what productivity the interest and I knew enough untried but not. Here's the story and I definitely yeah. -- -- yeah -- is ahead the interesting. Thing happened to me similar similar to a chose settle in on a couch because probably a 1516 years old. End Connolly in there and while the -- I'm looking down at myself I'm at the ceiling. Looking down. And well for me. I guess I panicked I don't I don't back in the my body thinking that this isn't normal this isn't right scared myself and that's -- the only time that ever happens. Number after he never let it happen after I thought there. It's weird feeling and it's time it's different mind and I guess falls more under lucid dreaming and this was something that. I was doing a lot of Reading fallen out of time and some wanted to know if it was something that was possible and there there was something. In the in the research that suggested that if if you have -- eighth. A trigger. Memory to use in a dream you're supposed to do the of that -- That object to trigger object is supposed to help you remember that you're dreaming. And do a couple of tests to see you know if you're awake or dreaming or whatever. And I am very close friend of mine who had passed away years ago and you know all the semester dreaming a lot about him he'd come to me in a lot of my dreams. So I said that's a perfect trigger object for me since he pure so often that's something that I know will be in my dream. Quite often. So in -- I started practicing that technique and ensure enough one night. I actually had a dream and he appeared to me and it felt like I was in a high school cafeteria almost it was that style of you know tables and -- And he comes walking through the door and they said Tom holy cow what you do your thought you were dead and he says well I'm here. And I got so excited that you -- told him well who hold on I I think I'm dreaming here I got to do a test. Then you might make dreams changed and I don't know how to describe it but I felt some type of shift. Where I was now in control the dream and I actually started doing a test. Realized I was dreaming I got so excited I woke myself up in. You know just like -- you -- I can't get back indictments if I don't -- it's a shame is also has constantly out. Well hopefully tonight's guests cannot. Educators a little bit on how lucid dreaming and techniques and and how to do that. He's. A book author. As well as many other things Venezia. Director of the institute for paramedic studies and that's local and our -- He's also also the author of between the gates which talks a lot about lucid dreaming is name's mark Scottish market. Thanks for joining us here in the Studio One mark -- thank you very much an invitation -- to be here. So some of the things we're talking about your does that sound kind of like a little bit out of body experience lucid dreaming type of -- experiences. Well -- agree that we talked about ahead of time because. Almost everyone has some experience similar to what was mentioned. And they really don't have a framework put it into. Socially helpful to people not let you know this is actually quite normal that happens a lot. Who's -- is feeling of you know. I I think was that stands and who. Just terrified of what's going on right -- right back again right you know and they say it felt like I was dying and I say -- because so you felt like you were simply getting indicted let your body you know -- something's wrong here. Well and and historically. A lot of people blew a lot of traditions I should say whether western esoteric spiritual traditions or oriental traditions like Tibetan buddhism. The continuity of consciousness between lucid dreaming we're dreaming lucid dreaming meditation and death. It's considered a continuity so to send us you'll feel like you're I was -- and I say it's because well that's what it feels like to -- probably from commercial. So it's people get scared. And the numbing is that's part of what goes on my people have you know your your losing less awareness your body. And you're feeling more open to more expansive and it's just very different from our did inexperience damning thing this is very very hard to describe the feeling I have my nine doesn't know my body felt different not just a different yeah. You don't like this you always dreaming like so there's a shift as a way to describe that I felt a little different at the time. Now mark let me ask you did -- director of the institute for paramedics study sets -- -- are counting. And what's I don't about what you do that that's an organization we started probably about ten years ago or so. And it just gives us -- framework took off for a classes and workshops. Probably three to six times a year for folks are interested in this kind of sank. Because having been fairly widely published people say well. Can you teach any classes and I say well shore and I traveled to do it -- also Jewish here in northeastern Pennsylvania and more importantly. We bring folks in to talk about it over the last three years we've had quite a few. Tibetan Lamas comes through to teach about a remembered as a meditation and in particular dream yoga. -- the inner energies of the body which is part of it. We have -- one coming up in the end of march and great. Now I know that -- a lot with a lot of mystical stuff and and you know. I'm lucid dreaming and I think Castro for direction that's all a part of it. How did you get involved in that are with what made you decide to write about it I'm assuming -- you've been able to do distance. You're -- on how to do it did you do this -- to a freely as a kid re able to do -- there with digital upon it by accident or is something had to develop. Well I had a fairly early interest in these things so -- he was just part of the literature that you've come across and also the people -- -- Who could do this to varying degrees some very well on command and others just kind of they could plan it out if you will. So. I said what is the common factor is that how do we do this in the literature say it always seemed to focus on one thing -- How did -- we dream or how to remember your -- to someone say. How to go straight out of body projection and and then how do you deal with that terror on the threshold right call. You know here's dispersal of crossing over how -- -- that. And I notice said unfortunately a lot of the literature was kinda scattered so. What I did is I talked everyone I knew both in different esoteric organizations released studying practices stuff. With in the literature and I I codify it and what was nice is after I was done. Is they realize that this is the exact same process and information. That of course you see in Indian yoga and in the Tibetan eurocard is being an exact same thing that makes sense because we're dealing with ourselves as people. Our minds and our minds function. No -- difference between. Astro projection in lucid dreaming them eventually -- the way you start I -- -- differ with you lucid dreaming first falsely pin it is there a difference. -- hope it's pretty straightforward the first thing is we always sleeps so we're gonna dream and we have to remember our dreams memories really important here. So we work on memory had -- remember our agreement then. How to become aware that we're dreaming. And once -- become aware that we're dreaming how do as you said I'd like change and dream so Linden doesn't overwhelm me. I don't like change that experience. And then from there we go -- to purchase that would be lucid dreaming then we go on to what we call out of body experiences where your. Actively engaging either and as you said looking down at the ceiling looking down on your mother doing the dishes. -- traveling out to some other locale or. As some different you know. The scriptures are full list traveling to other dimensions and world and engaging with consciousness there. Now that there's a lot of people who who -- me is there a difference I guess in that order to what really happens are you. Projecting your consciousness or is it more you were your actual soldier whose soul is coming out your body and can travel it. We civic consciousness and soul or in some ways the same saying okay they're he's mean to really connect -- for. Purposes of this discussion so it's one on the same sex. And the feeling is is that you actually leaving your body had two pillars standing you really feel so you warrant. And you have these stories of those operating -- stories of people singing I was looking down at the operating room and I saw things that could not be seen him in and gives verified by. The staff in the room. So. I think something either expands when you have that feeling of expansion. -- or something leaves or -- out there's often a feeling of tethering -- the need for the pit of the stomach is a Caribbean is leaving. So it's almost like I'm dual core assumption you have real -- that's very much what it feels like. -- I have reminds -- -- story -- with the hospital -- in seeing yourself. I've got a very close friend we go round and round about this on all the time she had an out of body experience where she was being operated on him college. And he vividly can describe what was going on the room with the conversations were seeing his body on the table. But yet he will not. -- admit -- -- or believe that theirs is such a thing as -- -- hear her ghost and I don't know how to place and you know my question always is all right well what if somebody happened to him. I would Cordero -- see you hovering above your body Oppenheimer of the -- you know what would you be that should be goes to -- I guess what. Absolutely because you're rational Dillinger offering us individual when you see them rise -- -- I mean I can you being the doctrine or mercenary in the -- and insistent that if people yeah. It's -- noise from the other question -- and we'll tell in my experience I have also. I want to drive in and my father's good friend -- -- was -- our vehicles in the passing away. Com and one then drive -- -- armored truck I'm thinking my head of course just isn't a part of myself and I don't Bob was around -- -- no wrong what do you. And all of a sudden I realize -- engage in a conversation. With -- in my head. I'm driving my humans Richard -- I'm driving. Examination conversational ball bouncing you know you don't -- probably this. Feel like they are for something and I'm telling myself he'd probably say it's this for the and I realize his -- -- on your dad doing type thing NN. Once I acknowledge the fact of having conversation it was over RP. -- they couldn't couldn't pick back up you don't. But he basically said hey you don't tell your best and I don't -- your whole in ourselves like -- are you -- butchered up of course an important and I don't -- mom and -- stuff -- really slow but. I was like is that a form of of -- talking about or. I think it very much could be I I was driving I was. Sleeping with the iron. Well -- what is consciousness I mean this is really what we're talking about what is consciousness and the you know when we die you know we don't have to see what our physical body's gone that's what dies the mind. In theory what we're talking about doesn't died so we're really trying about trying to understand what is the nature of Armani and and our mind is not been limited to the physical body so. If you're if you're thinking about this person these other ideas and of course you know who's to say that you can't have that. Connection -- that merging or better overlapping I mean. That's what almost all the great spiritual traditions talk about -- was amazing just -- Christmas all right well we're talking with mark established -- Between the gates and we're gonna continue our conversation we have to take a quick commercial break so stick with -- will be right back. And I. I. Welcome back you're listening to paranormal science on W wild okay. Charcoal numbers are 5708830098. -- free -- PA 1804370098. Will be announcing those numbers at the end of the segment as well we of another free. A thirty minute psychic reading to give away from psychic medium Michelle Gallagher creeks can you can check carotid ML Gallagher dot com. And right at the end -- when the next break we'll announce that to walk call in and give those numbers again so stay tuned. Now tonight we're talking about. Lucid dreaming Astro projection out of body experiences with mark establish he's the author of between the gates in corporate -- people find a book. We can find that of course locally at Barnes & Noble and it's on Amazon and the publishers are -- wiser. So they can go to the Amazon web site to render wise you're. Barnes & Noble and great and I'm I'm checking out your your website security hurt her -- institute -- -- And you've got a lot of books that you've written -- thank you very much. This one again is of particular interest I think of all of a lot of our listeners I think just because they can really relate to it because of dreams and and I guess some really well dreams sometimes and you know it's hard to tell sometimes when you wake up and go wow that was just so vivid it just seems so real is that an example of an out of body experience while you're dreaming. And well it may be defense and you know with the details are -- it's probably more on being an example of some kind of lucid dreaming where you just so full engagement and that just feels real and and I hear that from people as well as I it is as if I had another life. I knew what to expect behind the door manual was gonna go on I mean this felt as if I was in a completely different world and as -- mentioned earlier. What goes on when we die. Now it's our mind what is our mine produce would remind experience. And the serious is a lucid dreaming. Out of body experience that's projection and that's giving us a glimpse of what lies beyond. Tonight a great experience of my nine year old my wife now thinks I'm crazy here. But I thought we were watching a movie the other day there were some some -- -- on the -- who sprinkled some pixie dust a little girl also of course my daughter's that I wish I could fly. And I told her you know what if you if you practice you can fly in your dreams if you want to. And apparently had a pretty big impact because it was about a day later. Humvee is she woke up and she had actually told me later that day she. Woke up in the middle of the night and should start thinking about me and -- what I had said so she drifted off back to sleep. She who is. He's envisioning herself just jumping off the floor with her arms out trying to fly jumping up and down a few times and she said though she remembers dozing off and I'm starting to dream about it. And then she tried jumping one time in your head office the ceilings of the house and didn't get there was such an impact -- -- herself up and -- Marco what what is so when your first memories of having a lucid dreamer out of body experience. We'll probably one the most. -- Profound ones is my earliest but it's the most annoying it is when I I felt as though I was having that experience and I'm leaving my body and I'm. I'm kind of hitting the ceiling which is kind of we see why it's our mind what's hitting the ceiling but of course it's our perceptions. You know we think the ceilings real we don't really know what's going on. And I kind of felt like plastic man you know for a who assists. From live -- -- from the -- Castro -- stretching -- -- my my my legs so super long my arms and I'm. I'm saying and just went on all night this feeling of in and out and and as far as -- -- being stretched and out who's like. Please just get this over with already this this is horrible I mean listen she was annoying is what it was it was -- -- just exhausting. This constant back and forth and and I think part of that is really. Breaking down our inhibitions we get terrified when we feel like we're leaving our bodies and we couldn't fall right back in. So we have to train our minds this is all lumped in training the mind to to not only accepted as a reality. -- how to deal with it when the experiences occurred just as anything else. Whether it says. -- herself in your day job war and anything else we do we have to know how do X do you with the experience essentially come to us. You know and a and an English about the present a different emotions cut taxes on the out on the -- law. Don't science website here I'm sorry I'm -- FaceBook says a question I had vivid dreams but I woke up from a fall back asleep into the same dream. That's what happened several times a one night the dream would not repeat itself we would continue. This is normal how am I crazy I've always talked with loved ones from also talk to -- ones that are passed on in some of these dreams. Well if you're actually falling back asleep in the dream is picking up her real well I have done also -- well that's great because that that's a big plus a lot of people don't have that they did he may pick up a day later some other time that. To have a -- that continuity is really very good. Again not really knowing exactly who of the persons experiencing that. Yeah I think than any time you have that feeling of communication with some of his -- on. Can you walk away from it just feeling good and healthy and whole. That's a good thing. You know that the brings up another question I had to also mention about my friend who has died who would come to me injuries all the time. When you're dealing with lucid dreaming or out of body heal faster projection is that something that you can do as an intent to go and visit a loved one was passed as a possible. In the theory says yes. And incited the ancient scriptures are read about this and all the schools -- talk about this in the same thing and that's -- -- the book is about. Taking you through the -- process I mean we always like to just -- breaks in the end which is an embodiment you know there's the steps along the way and and I think I believe it did it is possible I know that I've had experiences said that I am convinced were real because of information derived from it. And other people have told me the same self. I think if we look at the slice of saint. Whether Indian. Western religion or fueled the saints and oriental religions we see a lot of disease. Ideas and being able to leave the body being able to travel to other places. And being able to communicate. With weather. Loved ones or other intelligence is when you wanna call them angels are we don't call them. Saint civil war deities of it's there so I say where there's some smoke there's fire. Cool I mean you know I look at some of different -- -- I think shaman and actually talks about not. Does well on your four they went and they actually swell and they would call. What the white male call hallucinations you know -- Americans believe that that was actually part of the journey and they saw no future and that's -- you know. Because some here animal you know your animal instincts and your animal on the -- was some some guys it's also important. And sound I -- an American union after. Since themselves on something Henman document and I mean that's that's one of the things they actually used. And that was an a state of loose is this I mean they weren't necessarily sleep with the the -- who gets so highly bonds would go on the minds and go on. And then you go -- and come back to you from from -- that they could explain or talk and explain past lives you know even even as far as seeing the future. Well that's that's kind of the low level trance state they have to be antibodies and relaxed today you know aware of it. But your mind is active enough to know that something's going on people often get this when -- six -- you hear this story of the wounded healer. You know that they have this trance experience it is quite profound I mean I've had -- when I was sick that stuff was going on NASA while this is just great. You know but you know why don't have to be so feeling so I was so sick to experience and so. Part of that all people do often get this when -- -- And then we of course try to replicate that in one is -- a fever the burning out right in the sweating. Were you get exhausted there's I mean there's a physical element to this to get you in the right state of mind. Passion -- it -- always have to be as severe. But you have to train I have to practice in NASA between the gates is about how to take you through those guided steps. -- so Jim I hope that answered questions from Britain's continuously Hampshire forma. There's no Marco what -- think that could be a huge help to a lot of the clients we deal with with the PPA. Or are they have these experienced laying in bed at night and from what I've read it sounds like a lot of these experiences are precursors to. Lucid dreaming or out of body experiences more things than to -- a dream maybe but. Can you give us an idea of what to deal sensations or physical feelings you might have while you start to go into. An out of body experience brochure and in this is where folks -- really you know it's so different from a -- Alexis really terrified. And there must assume most -- go to bed they lay down their mind races this fall asleep. What happens here is they remind doesn't shut off. So there a week but their body is asleep. And it's not responding. So they feel -- Or they feel kind of like any kind of a number expansive and it's like they're kind of expanding that word often just to one side. Usually to the left for kind of maybe just for the west side of the head maybe like they're sitting in dosing. But then there's also the paralysis. And this -- we hear a lot of people talking this is a scary and this is important this is -- terrifying part is they're paralyzed they can't move they can't screen they're trying to they're terrified. And essentially what it is is their bodies asleep. As if they were in under some kind of anesthesia but -- minus awake. And they just have to go with that they have to relax. Tango with it for focus on something very positive. So there religious people. The best thing and it was just focus on whenever there object of prayer happens to -- If there -- -- particular religious people that's a little unfortunate in this work. Ahead but if you're not then. We'll focus on something nice and happy for -- from three to try and relax enough 'til you finally wake up. And can we get that a lot I've actually experienced this myself and I had no idea what was happening until I started doing some research on it. And I would wake up in this only happens maybe three or four times in my life what. Probably the most terrifying thing I've I've ever gone through just I didn't know what was happening but. I'd be laying in bed and -- be you know -- quite awhile after iPhone sleep. I'd wake up and tied to myself I felt like I was you know completely awake and unable to talk unable to move whatsoever. I felt like there was somebody in the room. Yes you know I didn't know where what I felt like I was being cautioned that there's somebody there and I was just terrified my heart was doing you know -- team beats a minute and humvee he really took me. Quite awhile to settle down and out. You know -- I wish I had the information that I had now I would have been able I think to relax myself and realize what was happening but. I'm pretty sure that was the start of movies -- -- attribute dreaming -- Projection something that affect. Well I -- that sense of others is important because Saddam. Depending on what truly going on it may be. What do you know a lot of people and dangerous situations refer to as the third man phenomenon. Where they they feel this sense of a presence that it isn't really there and is highly subject to file -- there but they may see it -- -- the third man. People are stranded often talk about -- great danger. So that can be a psychic. Presents if you will there to help and guide -- you don't know and you can freedom and work could be a projection of your own mind. Because a lot of this that's going -- is a -- that we don't understand because we often think everything is me here. Everything else over there a bit in the state of mind you're you're open to all sorts of possibilities. And then there's a third one which you may very well be. In other presence or entity. And because you're not used to it just like a stranger on the street to sits down you may be at a bus stop -- in a restaurant you feel NEC. Just because you know I used to it now familiar with that again. Think that was the issue for me is is I wasn't used to -- and you know what was I couldn't move completely paralyzed they -- even scream nothing there was absolutely no movement for me whatsoever. And although I never saw anybody in the room Michael until it was good veteran different I just felt like a third person that I -- you would. I think the most upsetting part for me was the inability to move or speak training. But we're gonna continue talking about this we have to take another break and we'll be right back. It's talking animal science I'm here to tell you about some of the best -- there. It's a panel experienced that in itself so those pizza that's right so those pizza and the restaurants since 1964 for seven days a week. Okay irrelevant it's in bypasses the for some comments they have pizza wings hope -- dinner you name it they have that you sort of settles by calling 5706550001. Some of pizza dot -- them an app for your phone Michael on FaceBook if you mention this that give you twenty also prefer. -- can. There's some listeners. Spontaneously. Like. And turn. All right we're back you're listening to thermal science on WYOK. We're talking with author Mike Smart establish your -- between the gates it's a -- gone Astro travel. Lucid dreaming and we've all had good experiences we were talking about other -- precursors to. Lucid dreaming and Astro projection prior to this in a marvelous thing that I had mentioned here are ferry -- was. Although I woke up in that that -- panic terrified state to one thing that I also remembers when sorry I became a week and offering conscious. He only in awaiting state. Was covered with sweat -- that's how how would -- incredibly real it felt to me and I took me awhile to settle down. But we also get a lot of other clients that report things like. Hearing like a loud would -- know these are roaring noise or some pressure on the chest almost like somebody's pulling them down where they might even here. How would they think are are people talking through is that something that's common as well. We you know if you if you look at some of the U scriptures. One of the most common descriptions is being taken up a whirlwind. And that. Many people look at these scriptures say as soon symbolic of something else but. You know when you when you've had the mystical experiences are the kind of it's like oh but that's what they're talking about the symbolism -- much clear and so this idea of being in in a place where. You're hearing things and hearing this talking. It's really fairly common and I I didn't Sanford before break it you know. If you look at other. Other religious systems on a philosophical systems. Mean we are with for them we're warship in a sea of invisible beings and and if most people actually knew. More experienced or saw the the amount of the kinds of energy and being surround them. That you need to really be very terrified by it without knowing what's really going on. So I think that and then of course you deal with this regularly with with the various reports of haunting since such. But it's more than -- and and of course our mind we can reach out our mind is not limited. In this state so you may very well as we heard early have a conversation with its and a friend for your conversation another room. Just because. You're open to it. -- your book is sort of volume instruction manual on how to get started doing this if somebody wanted to get into a first of all is this something that anybody can do. And if they wanted to start you know -- I'd recommend going out buying the book just the best way so you have general concept of what to expect to put. Which the best way to start his meditation good two to adding into the this practice of trying to. Project out of body. Well I had a body experience is lucid dreaming is all first and foremost about understanding your own mind sending him to control your mind. So that when these fantasies in the projection starts ago. I mean we all had that. You know where something happens and don't know you know. We we get decent you know into the world scenarios going on there we can't find our keys -- And that I think it will happen if you're in an environment where those into the world sayers actually not take on 3-D form around you. We -- and we're talking about the dream world because it's our own mind so it's very important and anyone who undertake this work. First realize that meditation is very important having had the spiritual life is very important. It's it's up to you to figure was what's best for you we can help you know at the institute for -- -- we've talked a lot of peoples -- Helping them find a path that's good for them. But regular daily meditation and prayer is very important. Because that's -- we call in -- sense to work of the day what we do during the day and then there's the work of the night. Which is what we do when we're sleep and that's where actually we bear the that the fruit of all our efforts. You've usually been. Conscientious and work well on it then when my time comes and we. Consciously make the idea that tonight we say this tonight I will dream. And I will remember my dreams upon awakening. Tonight I -- dream and I don't remember my dreams and I won't know that I am dreaming as I dream and we see you have to prime your own mind to know that this is possible. And that I can control those dreams and that I will. -- of course moves on to experiencing what is this all about but experiencing the ultimate nature of reality. See we re too often think of this only is kind of what got. A Coulter -- psychological parlor tricks well ahead an out of body experience that's just that's not an end in and of itself. The whole purpose of this is so that we can experience -- -- nature of our own minds in the -- nature of reality. Mark -- request on some nutrients I've had in I'm not sure they fit into this and -- could vouch for this. Sometimes I'll have these dreams. Where I'll see something happen. Admission is a joke and maybe a few months later this would happen. Right downside no the color of something or certain numbers certain things would happen. And if I don't if I dream it when they wake up if I don't write it write down that in there it's got. Now in year class Asian studies is something I can do to help this along. Well that's I said we we have to make a conscious daily effort gurus should say evening or night time effort saying tonight are all dream Iowa remember my dreams. And our meditative practices so you can do. -- to help -- remember them but but the regardless of those you have to have that firm conviction. Then you will remember the -- and eventually over time we know it will happen that I may be short of me just take a few a few weeks or few months. But that again. When we're in that -- state -- separate states the ability to have clairvoyant or pre cognitive experiences. Is not out of the realm of possibility. Well first he -- had no -- to. The biggest -- interest. Yeah -- -- always works I guess you know one thing I was gonna mention before. About. Having having those -- just precursor to an out of body experience and waking up totally frozen and then. -- unaware of what was happening at the time since I've done research on that. It's never happen again I think and I know exactly I'm sitting here waiting for it to happen so I have some concept of those what's happening in May be tried to calm myself down and and you know attempt to take control again. Our market I've heard from a lot of people who who have practiced this and and again from whatever faith you come from you might have different ideas of of what to do what. A lot of people recommend changes are you were saying during a practicing the spiritual life. They were recommended may be requesting assistance from you know higher power to accompany you. Fun and an Astro projection to sort of guide you so you're not. Running into trouble while they're running into something you're not aware of what it is and you know getting yourself scared is is that. The good practice. Pretty good practice and just indeed -- life. Again we often like to separate this stuff found instinct and it has some. Unique specialness. And makes us feel so good all I ask your -- -- in contact with my power and and that's that's that's great but really isn't making a better person. And if you're putting yourself under the guidance of he knows somebody supreme being or the notion of an enlightened mind or whatever we want to call it daily. Few -- in the morning forgetting about have been daily and often then this is going to roll over in your evening experiences because your habitual leading your mind to it. So this is training the mind. The -- a parlor trick. And that's what is so often forgotten this takes time and effort because this is about ultimately who you -- this is by your ultimate survival. After death. But I found for myself. Via the more I practice trying to remember my dreams the more rush that was happening again and I was remembering. And -- Stan I think you might have mentioned trying to recall your dreams and what not when you wake up -- -- if I don't. I don't remember them if I don't make note of right now right now I just disagree press this is like even have an audio recorder next your bed and just you know say a few things -- into the audio recorder. Two you know put some some small ballparks don't you know so he can go back and write it completely in the morning but. I find the same thing though that if I don't write it down right then I lose a lot of bad. Throughout the day -- So mark what would be some practical applications that people can actually use this for me. Holler than thou self interest in trying to doing going out doing it are there real real world practical applications and where -- you can. You often learn stuff for travel to an area you want to learn about her visit. Forcing the most important part of having. Genuine lucid dream is to realize that you are waking your own mind that there is more -- than just. Just physical body and and passing thoughts and emotions. And then impulses and habits. And then to move beyond that's financial out of body experiences to to give you some sense of hope that there is survival after death. Not just something -- you're told about it and forget about fifty women and I actually exist. I actually exists in in this colossal -- in this universe. Thank and that means other people and other being -- listings due to. And that's really the practical reality I mean we we can talk about learning how to travel to places again you know it's it's cheaper than an airline ticket that. But then you get into this notion of morality and ethics current. It's okay to do that -- of course what we we've always see people who tried to spy on one another and and you know do some things that are questionable value so. Again what your motivation. Your motivation is going to decide your successor -- that I believe is also about the intent to -- go with the lets you motivation was -- July and why am I really doing this. Yeah I guess if your intention isn't all that great you can probably have some pretty scary. Projections I hate to say about just like we always talk Obama showing you know when when you think they can we do something and you intentions you're bound to get something made -- from a -- so I mean. There's only keep pure positive I believe is -- towards you know the goodness of a few well I think won't he'll be all right Chris I think so I think most people they. -- the overrated do projects are in tears and fears and find themselves up. -- in our -- we have to do is because again as you know and indeed the life. Your your best friend your worst enemy -- absolutely -- -- it seems. You know get through the people that we work with that the PP eight. That a lot of parents report their kids seem to be able to do just -- proof read will there and you know mark maybe you can -- here a little bit more kids a lot more able to do this at a younger age horizontal cynical I think you don't mean they'll have all the every -- right there yeah. Well again it's about training the mind and in life is it when we when we have children of course I've got about two young boys and and we're always trying to get to reduce -- -- wanna do. And it's like anything else -- you know what's your own shall name. Mean inflation becomes very regimented. Gotta get up -- -- got to go to school you know -- in and all of these things where is you have an out of body experience or crisis certain amount of relaxation. Best tournament of openness and freedom that. We lose and under the high pressures -- day to day life and then on top of that it's telling the mind. Whereas I said earlier we tell the mind this is possible I can do this and I will do this but how often -- India life. Children are told. This is impossible and you can't do that -- whatever we tell ourselves. We accept his reality -- I really love -- -- how sheltered children downloaded a -- realizing that the oh don't worry about it it's just a dream to go back it means nothing you know so there are essentially putting those blocks in the place where blockers in the places -- -- children on and -- realizing it. So the trauma can actually do this week -- adulterer. Feel of course when we get some sleep go back to bed not worry about not be fine so -- them write down exactly -- we're showing dumb but that's your money on my opinion of course. Now is her age that's too young to start learning about this or should someone reach eight. The maturity level and emotional maturity level firsts but this is the question I just came up to me. Few days ago about some other kind of meditative practices I thinks that. Again if we want to meditating rest in our own mind and understand ourselves -- phenomenon these experiences occur naturally. We don't need to trigger them they will occur on their own and then later on beyond where -- had to development. So there's no no one is ever too young to learn and understand themselves relaxed to meditate to focus on their own mind can begin to move outward from there. I do think so without that experience or without that foundation. Trying to get someone to do out of body experiences. Really in any time this is tricky and best. But I certainly wouldn't want to encourage children. To be undertaking. He's secretary practices because in their bodies are fully grown member there and they're nervous systems and leads him. I think we don't really some growing if I understand -- we're 22. And some of the old column was sticking a chemical literature says that we really can't achieve full awakening. Until we're at least twenty years of age because we have to prepare our our bodies and our emotions to experience that. Whether it's sure not I can't say for certain but we do have some suggestion set. Good spiritually from the beginning is important but esoteric training. Which -- -- talking about here. Really is a matter of individual choice and should not occur begin to Philly teams early twenties. Has the best and again for people were saying while this is you know definitely dabbling into difficult period don't wanna do with this can actually be a part -- -- spiritual practice and I can be worth ten. To you know ascend to a higher level of consciousness correct employee and in the -- culture is mean -- -- from -- and is a lot of things that are hidden from the guy until we built a telescope and -- And -- you know the microscope. So now we're just using the mind to understand things -- -- from me on. So you know they -- idea that this is a colts and using has a dismissive term there's like the same way some people now use the word religion or order something else. You're your understanding you and mysteries of your own mind and I don't know can be better and more important than that as your god given right to understand yourself. Now we we sort of talked about this and in the first segment. Can I just want to bring him back up again I think the biggest fear that a lot of people have. Car once they tried this they're not going to be able to get back in the body in her -- there has -- right what does that that. Just won't happen correct. -- I think you missed Kenseth and haven't heard about doesn't center. Don't go to notre but you know I thought I hit it here have a lot of people who usually get terrified you can snap bagged him like a rubber band. Okay that's right and and I've had to myself I know that I know itself I -- measured at the least of your worries. You did getting out and staying out in enough trouble between us and that's right all right mark establish author of between the gates thanks so much for joining us throughout the time. Hopefully you'll come back and join us in the studio again Paula thank you very much and anytime thanks for come -- impression all right hey we also want -- congratulations to Tammy. Paying some of Pittston she's a winner of tonight's psychic reading -- her -- descent had reservations. All right folks that's it for us tonight a paranormal science thanks for tuning in we'll see you next week thanks to listen. Good night.