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WILK News Radio>Audio & Video on Demand>>John Wetzel Interview

John Wetzel Interview

Mar 7, 2014|

WILK's L.A. Tarone speaks with Secretary of Corrections John Wetzel on a realm of issues.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Indy round zoo is under way it is 807. And on a Friday nights on W while K very happy to say regarding the news trigger line and on it. The Pennsylvania secretary of corrections. John Wetzel mr. west so thank you very much for being here tonight -- entrapment appreciated. Ask you I guess we'll jump right into I didn't do away with the preliminaries. Is the goal of the penal system in Pennsylvania is it more and maybe I shouldn't use the word -- penal the -- corrections says system in Pennsylvania is it more. Geared towards. Punishment. Per isn't geared toward rehabilitation. First two separate question we'll start with says the goal is to reduce crime. It's so order released 1000 people this year from our prisons if we would release them and we haven't addressed the issue that I'm. That led to the first but let them coming there. That we'd have an impact on crime do we achieve every day now. But that's our goal. How much of a role. He can you talk about rehabilitation may be as you've been quoted as saying that. You won Pennsylvania to be rethinking prisons as as as we know them and you know you're believe serve quite a bit. I guess I'll little unconventional. For most corrections although I happen to agree with many of the things that -- That that I'm -- you quoted as saying. Com did talk a little bit about rehabilitation like how far candy is ten everybody -- be rehabilitated. Now now. I mean if it means you don't have to wanna be rehabilitated really starts with that but I think that we have a duty really to provide people the opportunity to change your life I -- what we now on what the research says. Is that if we can identify what the root cause of a crime has and then provide programming that is improving to to address that issue that people are less likely commit a crime on the back -- So that's really what we did it starts with would do an assessment prefer them when they come in and really find out what led to the crime and it's very happy in other fancy name and actuarial risk assessment but don't let me make it. Let me let me but I I'm giving analogy for that so. If you're eighteen year old young man. He just bought a brand new that. I'm guessing you're -- to going to be slightly higher than my 82 year old mom charter VW bugs. Right right because you put that he would present more risk to get -- get an accident could do something stupid. And the insurance company has a bigger risks which usually you have to pay more for their risk. We have the same told -- to identify what -- closer to climate and we know we can address that people come out less likely and in our case 70% of the offenders who comment are addicted to. To drugs or alcohol. Another K 41%. Of our overall population has some kind of -- -- -- Females and 63%. Of all our team Obama -- help roster. These are issues that you know if you would look thirty years ago what we had. 47 left and make you would have seen a lot of these folks in -- hospitals. And those kind of things now we have -- so again 90% above everybody can present today and we 51000 people -- -- -- Percent -- get now. So. Anyone amount older and angrier or or hopefully. Having addressed the issue that let -- for comments and actually what we put our focus on appeal realistic about it. Clinton people don't come I've played DOT could very cinematic -- -- jaywalking and even then nonviolent offenders. I have been averages seven later recipes where they come to. Yes that's the average for every offender comes in here seven -- -- -- -- the bigger question is what we do before they get their business after the first or second Iraq. Right that was my follow up question what do we do is a county jails is it -- little fine -- is it. Again now I don't know slaps on the wrist. Yeah you know I think what I think -- our system has evolves to is that. That we throw a lot of things when someone commits a crime but we really address system and I'm talking before they can get tourist state prison we really haven't looked got. So what's the cause of this crime and should the punishment fit the punishment. And articulate predicated. On just dessert so if you do -- gonna happen tears in my mission rent it a part of our system but. It included in that needs to be told someone. An addict. And I -- we do filming your fundamental tornadic. So so you've really got to get to that and I think that's -- -- progress you're seeing that our system ball to the county level. And the state lab or acknowledging what we got Peter Paul -- let's address those first yes. Come to prison go to jail beyond all probation beyond -- Hamas have a GPS. -- com. Let's address the root cause and oh by the way if I just don't people imprisoned there. Not only has a population. In that parents play a -- questions grown from about 8030 years go to 51000 -- well barge hit it now over two billion now. -- that was my question -- as the NASDAQ had here in 1980. We spend 94 million dollars one point eight. Billion last year that's quite an increase. Figure increased greatly increased absolutely and carrier 24 years before our administration came we came and and 2011. The 24 years I think 24 because that's both Republican and democratic ministry. That's one of the narrative is very evil or later that he. -- -- and ball -- have taken turns playing bad decision or criminal justice system that led to us so we literally averaged 15100 in May a year additional. Every year -- 44 years for administration came. And and com. -- good leaders are in or three years we've only added sixty inmates a year somberly flattened out the growth by -- Improving processes internally and I can't say enough about -- distaff by the department of corrections and and really working hard to change our system to -- that Beverly. It's more efficient and one that really focuses on -- addressing the root causes but we put lesson. This system has grown by literally a prison every year they have for -- careers -- got here. -- prison building -- been one of the few growth industries in Pennsylvania over the last thirty years. But but that's not a bad start our game play our game plan has to really focus on two things 10 efficient. And when someone comes then get the treatment they need in the beast for their -- -- out. So they can get out and we know we've we've at least had them -- the programs -- start their address certain needs. But and also on the back and focused born while we return someone return them in a manner that they're less likely commit another crime near a lot about reentry. And and we've had a halfway house system apparent -- frankly was absolutely terrible. I can say that because in 2009 study was done by University of Cincinnati may have found that 95% of our -- -- out programs. Actually were releasing people would more likely to come back. Then less likely to become. God did arresting image now because I'm from hazel skin I live in haseltine you probably heard of the problems that that city ad with the -- -- halfway house that is since -- always. The only guy closed down. I -- yeah. And yeah I mean that prince that's kind of an interesting dichotomy because. The concept about halfway house makes a great deal of sense let's get somebody used to society before returning of them but if they're poorly run as you just stated they're more likely return and they would be if they -- -- presidential parole not. Absolutely and and part of the issue was not just that no way to -- it was Brian and I can tell you -- I -- more -- announced dividend that have been out manic and I've done unannounced visited every one of our trip to -- halfway houses and so I'm very comfortable talking about them. And it but also we were putting people in that halfway house we have to depart -- put people perhaps what else who -- -- not area dads and community corrections that community part that's important that that means your community not just summary and the community that we can plop it down here. Yeah I know that we departed yeah that that that was something bad some local officials not to success of mayors three successive police changed the chamber of commerce was complaining about these people are -- -- -- -- Philadelphia they're from Pittsburgh and her from Erie and then they break out they have no regard you know nobody did turn to no support network news -- current term is. Yeah I mean one guy held -- five convenience stores before he was caught some bug that that was indeed a problem now. Have spent so much money how would I introduced a that it probably my third week then. Matt what's the chamber numerous times in the local representatives and the first thing we did it that you you know we went up it looked I didn't really tried to look at what what the issue or first thing we did was totally out. Inmates who work in either. What exactly I wanna leave it turns loser -- -- -- or county or the contiguous counties with everybody else out. So the first step and then. And then it just wasn't a good fit the community and one of the things happen how important new you know you alluded to that school. I especially people who sort of a lot of time imagine being a locked up to forty years ago. They -- get out as you're driving a car to go to a gas station you wait for the -- could come out pump your gas Surrey. Are you look for a pace off the right people were right. Go to you can get a sandwich -- are you our country. Com to. -- -- is in jail for a long time has no clue about any of that works. It's one of the things we're slowly try and there. Trying to acclimate people troops fight so that's important that we have halfway houses but they have to beat a good fit with the community. They have to become part of a community the last thing we wanna deal. Is to make the community worst. An and and create more problems because we picked a bad spot a report the wrong people wonder not. Is he in general I hated -- -- sect was in an old hotel in Center City. Is that the is Sadr City the best place perhaps Borealis. Some cases being in Philadelphia first since we want people to go to blood through. We want them in in the community that they were coming out from. And so what what we've done as we TI has maps were every offender goes back -- so I got a map every year. That we -- thought or every predator comes back to have a bunch of dots that that's where we need -- four -- Tom. You know we need to put that's a play -- under pressure go back to. It's funny doing a Friday night and on the news -- -- wins Pennsylvania secretary of corrections John Webb saw a lot mr. -- my app and hang up on you by mistake if I hit the wrong button. Please call back because I'm prone to do -- for one don't want -- I shot -- nasal tenure on W wildcat. I don't know -- first and foremost I want to thank secretary workable for putting himself out its in this kind of form if you think the public. So few of our officials. I'm willing to do this several of the on and on your show and I'm very grateful for that is so thank you. I have several questions that are limited to wherever you cut me off topic I had and are the first question. I heard by the fact that. Not every prison in Pennsylvania and certainly not a group president and from parents county -- -- -- prison immediately upon. And during incarceration yet. -- -- lord protect -- containment many as fortified human bodily fluids -- some of which may contain pathogens. And what social health care if anyone -- -- -- packaging even if they cannot be traced back to prevent the public didn't go to pick up the tab and treating. That person potentially for the rest of the liberal right so -- street John. Under the principle that we are the American not a barbarians -- and mandate that every prisoner and debated. Why each -- they may not have to do that -- senator -- so isn't aware of that are right if secretary Wetzel isn't aware of that he did issue a direction senator what about our us secretary what about that DD hygiene things like that they could lead to work. Disease spreading. I certainly can't speak for every county jail in and Pennsylvania but applied. Com what we put a pretty high a top priority on. Come on hygiene and and I don't believe that to be an issue. In DOC I can certainly follow up on apple weeks we have so much tracking as far as I mean the big concern in game collections there's -- our power or bright. And and our numbers are. Fantastic get some ten minutes communicable disease is -- -- -- moderate but we have to report and responsible for for the -- -- it's certainly follow up on that should -- county jails and understand we have sixty to carry -- -- to bring in each one is run -- that county we have minimal standards that we inspect storm. And it and but they're not very specific as far as the guy I can guarantee -- I was there rendered in before county children can you -- -- our issues. Right okay well that that that is apparently echelons issue. But I have another yeah. Would you support a piece of legislation that mandates that every guard and every person county or state within Pennsylvania. Mark to eat at least one meal from the prison. Prisoner. Food line. And -- black betray randomly. And in need of. Maintaining quality control of the food within the president -- know that I. They've proven guard base and they mathematical probability of randomly selecting -- president train that had. At a poultry packing it in this. This came up as an issue while pierce secretary Wetzel because I believe it was something that happened and the -- want accounting prison about a year and a half -- -- And the word was that down the prison guards were getting food delivered they weren't eating the same food and that the food that was given to inmates and -- -- sub standard. Did and that's not that's not how the -- trade partner corrections operates. So we don't allow us different era included. Okay they're very prudent preparedness same kitchen. By the same inmates supervised by the same staff says be amazed do we that's not that's not our world Bradshaw won more. Okay would you support base state law that mandates that each community that as a person must form began meeting. Of outside law enforce not a dirty and that it can and include family members of the inmates that would serve as each entry point for. Criminal complaints about guards and staff and also. Cree east. A state level law enforcement team that under the department oppression that mine has. Not investigate every complained. -- -- -- our staff member in the state or county present and hundreds of provide a response and that's why he's just. Okay let me start -- first small I I spent most of my -- work and in counties. When it's hotter right from. Franklin park Lebanon are our -- correctional officer part time Malvern college I have blooms -- and I can't tell you are are going to in this state three years or are not -- deploy -- where I think we should send a whole bunch unfunded mandates city county. It's just not you know you talk about state -- on mandate there's a mandate there's for counties but without being said this spirit of what you're saying should there be legitimate checks and balances. That inmates can file grievances that are legitimately look that absolutely. And I think given in most counties there's prism board made up of the local elected officials. That's a mechanism for that however we have counties are I think mostly class two counties of Pennsylvania -- have been appointed citizen. Tourism board who want somebody walks through the prison and answers and make complaints so what you're talking about is not unprecedented in the state. But again -- I believe such a local decision I think one of the things that -- that one of the beauties about -- or that they are local and the staff who worked there are generally local. And the inmates are local so there's a lot of vested interest. And I think that's a decision at the local. Taxpayers in the local citizens should make -- how they want Sergio oversee. Then I shot I appreciate the car thank you -- -- Sean now a lot of those issues I think are directed at the county level Moran DS state level. And you know -- with 62 -- is 62 county prisons there are several in this area that are. And a pretty large I mean lack wanna lose earned counting your pretty large prison populations. As does that -- you said there and you answered one of my questions how many people were imprisoned in this state prison system you said 51000. In general would you characterize that as too many people in jail. Okay. What has led to the you can you mentioned a few minutes a golf. That there were bad political decisions by administrations. From mob balls -- from both parties. -- iron -- the last when I was doing talk radio my first run around it in the ninety's straight strikes and you're out became a rage. And I think the words a lot of political consideration. Given to creating three strikes and you're out legislation has that added to the problems. Yet Pennsylvania really. That at bat on the ball but it rarely used but that's not really a big contributor and what we police scene is is drug card. And and increasing the penalties of electric space for drug crimes. Has -- not coupled west so there was there was a law that says let's say you get. Do you if you are drug dealer. It's not like you're busted and although every drug dealer responsive -- this is the first summer like there were sold drugs but as you know they're lying -- so oftentimes what happens is. I'm based sell drugs over a month period tied two months three months four months. And are bought and what they're caught they're charged with a budget differences sales. And then those. All run together so there's different chores -- run together. And so most of the time that doesn't affect your minimum sentence so this sentence structure Pennsylvania. And I generally get a minimum -- maximum party or sentences but Amanda -- is generally half of your maximum however. If you got a bunch of charges any charge gives you six to twelve months. Okay you got five charges. -- people and the judge says we're gonna run these -- They're back and Serbia the chargers six are uncertain just six months has sixty market. But the bad part aggregates are or act together so we have a couple -- increase penalties before before drug crimes primarily. And then. Adding time on the back end -- -- people get out. First supervised for 5101520. Years right and and and they violate and they got to get in bed in that vicious circle sort of early. You know my my had to research describes her death by a thousand paper cuts to. -- have just love it tries to address there and they -- that tries to address says edit and then we came about how long they're made it gets started a great concept. It goes through this political process it's absolutely a nightmare. And it comes out I'm generally ineffective piece of legislation buried under reaches -- -- regions. I I -- -- so many different pieces of legislation and years and become potent political footballs. And I think it's probably more if the district attorney level. And perhaps is staged a representative and state senator level war one guy will run against the other guy accused him of not being strong on crime because he doesn't believe in. You know this mandatory minimum or that mandatory minimum and even when this rush for this stuff started twenty years and -- think it. Asked a prison system they have to deal with all this. Well and and you have to pay for is the bottom right so -- -- might say -- -- they did some violent offender if that access senator someone you can bet that he's got but also somebody blocked their butts up. -- some people need to be locked up forever and that's what killed along tartan there's some nasty people lock them up forever but it took root cause of the crime. It prediction. And if the product product they -- -- process so putting that someone who's addicted. And otherwise relatively low risk in a state prison and they come out the back -- more likely to commit another crime which happens. Then why are we dealing. How would that benefiting us and oh by the way it cost -- 35000 dollars a year for every offense that we have -- here. That was one of my question is do is say though last figures I was about and I thought it was 36000. But whenever I mean it is a lot of money to keep somebody imprisoned every year. Absolutely when you do corrections what's right there's a cost -- -- and and you know one of one of the things says that -- it's very important it is create -- -- -- -- for staff. I mean this is not. An easy job. Most people could not do the job that our commercial officers do movement and most people wouldn't do the job and not just our correctional officers are -- pursuit. All our our counselors. Our record -- I mean all locked -- when you're familiar locked and just like everybody else well. I hate it did this -- men as well because. It was just the year anniversary. About a week ago all of a prison guard. Corrections officer in knack -- -- Coke here. Who worked at a federal prison in -- and and he was viciously murdered by some sub human and animal named Jesse -- -- -- arrest record. That would stretch from here a pot smell he was the only guy on this block. Yep and and feet and you know this -- this -- the challenge were out there and and just to be clear for for your problems for your listeners that was just -- -- federal prison. I wasn't federal prison maintain -- in Wayne county yeah. Absolutely. You know I don't senator diminish the absolute tragedy and and just. You know here's here's a man who -- comes to keep the community safe and this this individual or you can use whatever. Term we'd like to describe the individual who viciously assaulted and killed this man. But you know if it's one I think so budget time right we have appropriation hearings. And you go in front of -- general assembly may say why are we spend so much money on correction let me answer it because you keep. Out of all -- -- more more people by the NATO can. And Pennsylvania. We're not gonna we're not gonna cut costs or not gonna save money on the backs of cut the number of officers and that's really. Where the federal system has gotten to a point where. Money is not just that so -- are staffing levels are. Lower than our Stefan -- It and that was my main -- for bringing that up so that situation we had 11. Guard one corrections officer of first cell block that's not possible one Pennsylvania. It's absolutely possible size of -- of the housing unit can. So it -- Barry since I've defeated look kind of globally and I don't accept -- -- a state prison. First there's federal present state prison have a better staffing level. But also and and one of the things that you also have to keep in mind with these things is. Is intelligence and understanding what MH you have so not only major create the same price so we have what we called level two inmates are lower level inmates. Sometimes we'll have them in like up barracks at -- -- and and that's not a lot different you you you feel a lot more comfortable west goes crimes -- ratios. In Barrett's foot level two inmates. -- -- High risk gang members right who are -- -- compile another -- -- who would be violently until they go to degrades down those guys you -- closer Costa beat you one more staff and also you wanna be able to -- The -- simply stick gather the intelligence to know what game this guy is on what day NASCAR event. Are they likely -- -- who's trying to do this and try to do that all that has a cold. That raises two questions. Number one when you say level to do. Vs a level one or a level three can I assume that level two was somebody who might be guilty of a violent crime and a crime of passion. Global -- generally for us tonight I apologize for this. So -- -- through those terms of people don't understand. Some level to lower security right sense so generally people who -- sometimes could be a drug addict it would be. Someone not cease to fight someone who has been he's hurt comment and and their low -- can address server short period -- and walked program and on their way down to a level two and -- get -- go home. OK and OK so it's it's somebody still has some respect for human life because -- individual -- was mentioned before. I Jesse Condo he was a -- is a long history of showing that he had no respect for human life south. And it got to tell you bet that those those folks and we come across some moan don't get me wrong they're certainly the exception not the -- and and again in our case in it you know. We'll have to 40000 people committed this state prison this year. 98% of them come back out most of average in three years so so it's it's com. Go to a little different ball game without consent we have. 5000 people were serving life from Pennsylvania. We have 200 people on death throw in Pennsylvania this. And so you know it we have it all. But we try to really make sure that we create conditions worse steps can be -- we can manage offenders -- the same time. I'm getting outcomes at the same -- keep him focused on trying to provide programming increase of -- people can can get better while they're in error. Am I it's aged forty and on the news trigger line westbound Pennsylvania Corrections Secretary John Wetzel. Secretary Wetzel something else you just mentioned before. That you have to deal with games in prison. Heidi deal with them how do you deal with two guys -- and gang is -- to. That Haiti job or. It's it's a big challenge for something when you think about it when when the police do their job we get them. And and so we -- a bit like a graduate school for gang members in and so what we we try to do a couple things number one -- data files. And and one of the things that we started as an administration. How long we came as we have acknowledged that we had a gang issue. And if you look at -- -- are assaults in -- especially Tom a lot of -- inmate -- but most of -- assault on -- gang related. So it starts with identifying gang members and -- that means sharing information and so now we put mechanisms in place to get that information. From counties come. And and conversely when when these guys get out we've been sharing information with police coming back so that's an important part and there once we know who they are then it's a matter of monitoring them it's having good mechanisms in place and -- two years ago the direction of of governor Corbett we opened -- -- management unit so what we do we literally drove one of our DOC -- around. And we picked up about forty or fifty. Pot gang members and our system -- blocked their butts up. -- SCI green and we put them through a program some of them actually graduated from the program -- graduation. I doesn't -- you quit the game -- that's not realistic graduation means. That use. You've gone through the program would have to ask you want to go through. And you're not gonna participate in gang activity or you're coming back. So were taken a real active approach in the key part is really working with other law enforcement agencies including the feds -- What part of a joint terrorism task force -- -- staffs and and obviously we're bug could. -- the reformation for for our our our brother and in that in the community. -- every day stop like wreck period when not when prisoners. Get to exercise period and there. Playing baseball or basketball or toss in a football around -- -- might separate. The -- from the -- sir whom ever. Now they may I'm generally self. Themselves separate. And and generally. You know. They may choose to to be around. Their fellow gang members although some place since we don't have you know sometimes. You know one day news is not necessarily. At war or an enemy with another dead at one facility but they art another. So it really is its own system wide effort but it also have to hit it also means good work in that area that every prison and the other thing. We really try to do to combat it is cute -- provide opportunities to keep people productively occupied. And there's one -- initiatives. In particular would do an -- right Dallas to. What's your local facility Gary is there will be its first and that's eight. Veterans honors block. Close 7%. Of the inmates can DOC about 3500. Inmates all of bachelor so. Many of which -- discharge veterans. And so we created across this system for veterans on our blocks that won't be that wild stretchers and anyone -- could do it would gain seniority and it provides stability. So these veterans clearly did something. Violate -- law -- and their paid their dues to society without being fed especially who wants to honorably served a lot bigger storage. They've done. Stuff first society so crave these auto blocks were -- focused our programming on addressing their PP ST what's most of them have come. Also creates an embargoed in the facility to have stability that have inmates who at least at one point lights were productive. Good honorable man. And and come so good to be able to plant that seed. Com and spread out stability and the more good inmate's quote unquote good inmates and some people prefer one -- say -- now I know I mean. You can put at a place it really helps us sometimes it's not. It's reinforcement but -- also providing programming improvise and structured activities. Can keep the people productively occupied -- Can I guess that most of that as 7%. Are there on some one drug crime or not are probably as a result. But PT EST. Combat drugs are generally a peace summit but sometimes they're violent crimes to and keep in mind that better especially coming through the experience of of people coming out of -- war now has a lot different than people coming out of war in Vietnam now. This episode that supports weren't necessarily there -- so we have. Give us some veterans were doing life shouldn't and violent crimes by the same token do what they are terribly Serbs didn't get -- we don't -- What about the cases and does not get around this we like to think in society this isn't around anymore but it is where there's a racial animosity between. Bob prisoners a black eye doesn't like the white guy doesn't like they Hispanic died as a might be Asian guy you have to deal with that too and I have. Yep yep and again what you talk about the importance of staying out and complaining they happened communications skills and and the escalating and you know I think that our ties people have to. People have their perceptions of you know please please pretty guards not all drivers. You know keep in mind even if the best case scenario you're talking to people why Republicans -- a lot of character briskly those are good odds where you learn. So communication. Better tactics those things are very important and we will -- Trying to get our staff and our officers to just focus on on identifying situations that have to be potentially escalate and and the escalating their men and interceding before it gets to that but less and there's always going to be racial pressures racial tension in the community and in my hand. Well you -- lock somebody up -- put criminal behavior you put. Attic so you put all this other stuff here it's not like you know walking on campus or blooms -- when you walk through one of these -- as a barrier. Tom you mentioned a danger to society is that who should be in jail I don't -- are -- people who are a danger. To society. I mean primarily yes there's some -- you cannot break so there's some people who have. One bad day but bad bad day -- mean they killed somebody or they seriously injured somebody and there are -- repercussions for that. So you'll look it's. We twice during want to be absolutely killing somebody. -- that's not very carefully that's one that goes across all different socioeconomic. The strata and and so. Com that's somebody who had one bad day and in many cases their chance of future criminality is is -- -- that being said somebody's dead if you can't un ring that bell. So bad aspect of it is his just -- -- if you do this if this happens but at some point. Com the public's safety is really what we need their future criminality is really what. Our system need to focus on because our current cap of block everybody out. It just financially unsustainable. White collar criminals to they belong in jail. Com. You know. I don't think you get much like it. I'm not sure how much truth -- you get and so that ought be I'd like -- in the white collar criminals is all talk about where to send a message -- white. That's exhibit is yeah -- doesn't that that it is. Does this area is is world famous for corruption and now he's had a couple of miles. Long sentences handed did judges I think they deserve them because they caused so much damage to us. Younger aged kids that they -- -- -- -- juvenile. Day and they said the juvenile facilities the way. So I'm learning how to be real hardened criminals that's something else you have to deal with in the prison system too -- -- some guy who. Had a bad day and all of a sudden he gets CNN now he's learning all the other stuff -- need it now running outside. -- we absolutely have to look at I think they did to judge is problem. Here that's that's a whole. Different ball game one bicycle white collar criminals. I mean -- just the whole notion that someone who spent their life working in in game criminal justice the whole notion that someone would would. Take a child and Pearlman president spoke for even a trip to its. Do you have a juvenile programs like this -- I -- -- other -- talk about you know you -- -- -- about the legislators America. You go you wanna talk about that but he got you know thirty Elop legislators up and and that cost Libya an aspect of punishment that our system is built on by the same token ideological legislator for two years. They did they get locked up because they suspect they they basically stole money right. They used. Taxpayer dollars to club -- solitaire or suburbs. What I mean what we really want out of that I have what the -- as a society do we want we want your money back. Yeah I I I agree with you completely on -- I mean former house speakers and minority leaders they traded places. Build a wiest and John per -- I guess for Zell was paroled this -- demand -- -- is gonna deep paroled in two or three weeks. We spent 65000. Dollars to keep them in jail and for the life of me I don't know what we got out and and as a society. And in most cases no -- ideally it -- a perfect world -- if you wanna have them sit somewhere for a year a year and a half two years to come sit somewhere where they can go work released. And we can take 23%. Of of air space or room and board and they start to come back at my -- we don't have that the state level county -- have that right back and N com. Again I think when someone commits a crime as a society what we Bruney didn't have focused on or real really need to look at is what do we want. If someone's feelings about men Obama of margin and somebody stole something from me I want my money. Right right. -- were running out of time here about I I have to ask something about this Megan's law Megan's a Sanders. Not when you find somebody who is using the Internet. Two while Lori young kids end as some you know disgusting sexual thing that's one day -- and he belongs in jail he did throw the book and a. Think it ever was in a while we find one of these cases where a guy looked dead and inappropriate web site. And never made any effort to contact anybody. -- -- to put him in jail to meet that doesn't seem like a good expenditure of public dollars. Yeah I I think the case you're talking about it a lot rarer stopped for folks who. Internet porn or Internet child pornography it is generally not one. File it's generally not one pitcher. I -- district 6% think congress here -- were the result likely discussion on that's what DA's center and legislators and that's generally not the case it's okay but when you talk about Megan's -- thing it's really interest saying I think that that's sometimes what we hear Megan's law so let's say somebody gets a ten to twenty years sentence early. Support for. Some act of -- feeling then that I have to register sports Megan's law for life. We assume I think we'd -- general public assume for a small wonder that this Serb every day at that forty years great. And we assume when they get out there after registered LB monitored to rest her life. The reality is Megan's law only requires him to register it doesn't have any monitoring. Or oversight. Requirements -- know if you would ask you may need it fight sexist candidate and taught -- how much time to understand how on the spent fifteen years. -- on this man. But at least enough time that I can have -- parole officer watched him come. -- -- checking her computer and especially that it three to five years. People there also divergence and and that's a key period. So come and I say that's because two thirds of this sex offenders we have to spend every day of their sentence in so that we caught Maxi town library and and on some level we all go yes we want them to -- every day but one you'll look. At what makes sense from a public policies SharePoint. Supervision. -- sex -- in the community is the only way. And the best way that we can mitigate the chance that there won't be any more victims and that's really what we want. And only got about a minute left and I have about twenty questions slept. Well that's certainly can we can do it again at some point com. You know you can just -- our press office because they got to tell you this you know when you look at just saw heard slot on most state budget being correction to. Not everybody realizes that that should be underscored that is number three public welfare -- the education to corrections three. Yep and it's so everyone has a vested interest plus. 1000 people were coming out of our presidents that can't have someone coming out of one of our prisons and being. In your neighborhood in your life or as a father of four daughters run and the one of my daughters it gets greater and greater as we -- more more people up. Detroit has a vested interest American red lobster you have there's a specific topic he won his third pick on next time we can certainly do mr. got. Ital cornerback and a few months and now wool arranges something in -- we'll -- to two or three topics and explore don't mine in greater detail I appreciate you taking the time to be with me tonight thank you very much guys great time.