Jump on the news trigger line on it isn't -- homer and he is a legislative director of the American Civil Liberties Union and Pennsylvania he is. Responsible for lobbying at the N general assembly and now congress any good evening I appreciate being -- -- and I thank you. -- -- -- relatives thought if what bots on have you read it this says Supreme Court decision to -- Supreme Court decision that says. A search warrant. He is not needed. To search a car in Pennsylvania. Guess separate -- significant chunks of it yes. What is your take on it because I mean I am under the impression that most other states don't require. A Yahoo! Search warrant. Yet it really isn't that difficult to get search warrant even on scene -- it seem like there would be that extra little protection in there and then I kind of like. Exactly so I believe. -- -- federal case for the Fourth Amendment had for its. Federal law enforcement to. Search -- That was not a search warrant based on probable cause and the Tampa -- in the constitution which also had its own search and seizure provision. Article one section eight. And -- Constitution typically has been interpreted. And to give more protection insurgency yourself in the situation. And it's basically almost since he's had vehicle was mentioned police have been stopping vehicles from the constitution has been interpreted. To acquire a search warrant sounds whenever the police stopped the car and don't want to sit. This ruling it completely turned that on its head and removed the requirement that simply can't -- this search warrant in order to insurgent vehicle. -- I read judge judge judge Shamus McCaffrey who wrote the said probable cause is a strong and sufficient safeguard. Against illegal searches you've. And the quick easy way to explain it to. Lay people is that. There is and then some bad. Suggesting criminal wrongdoing and going on and it's it's likely that that activity involved criminal wrong doing so at the event and it's like it is an innocent explanation pretty activity. And it didn't make it says both federal and state constitution but the problem here is bad. The only person making the judgment about whether or not they've reached probable cause in the police officer on the scene. And that's the result of this -- previously a judge. Would look at it you know in the Jordan neutral party to -- an opinion. And look at didn't say OK he had and you cannot hear you preach probable cause you can -- -- search. The problem here since -- didn't do the right thing. But the reason we had checks and balances because you're on the founders never read you know people are fallible and -- you do great things. I mentioned meant to search warrants are generally not that difficult to Gatt. On scene if for example. They stop someone. Bob. For a violent crime on route 81 I mean is somebody can call a judge and explain the situation. And a search -- probably in twenty minutes half an hour. Especially these days with how we can communicate so quickly. And -- even more of an exception for our. Let's -- -- circumstances so if there was an emergency you're a Democrat -- -- get the search warrant police computer search for example water. But generally by and large they needed the -- so. But you're right and him getting award is not. That differ called and police. Found were able to obtain them know -- any real credible evidence that they could not. But this is going to be bad the police because the Bieber told judge. I think you'll feel vehicle search and shooting up now would still be challenged or not we don't know enough to present this search. And that -- find nothing illegal is that person going to bothered have been challenged that's surgeons say it was going to be important and highly of their rights you. There's a beta -- question that's exactly where was going enjoyed on this direction last year the State Supreme Court ruled. In the case of somebody who tried to. Avoid a do you -- checkpoint. Turned around went the other way. Police pulled them over and that case was out front of the Supreme Court threw that out. In any way at all connected with this I mean what I mean is if that person turned around. And went from AE IDU -- checkpoint. Is that probable cause to search. The the vehicle even though wouldn't be probable cause. To chase the vehicle you see what I mean. I think so I need -- -- -- -- so this can actually stop the vehicle. Four cent lower standard called reasonable suspicion that came out in 1968 US Supreme Court case. And you try to -- -- the road so they have a lower standard for actually making the stop. -- they might equally true reasonable suspicion away and not a person and they probably have a person has tried to avoid police. But they still don't have probable cause to actually search the vehicle. I'm so there are two layers here for police have a certain standard -- reached and make -- stop. And then they have a higher standard that they need to reach to -- its search. I'm gonna ask you about a bill that. Is it law yet in Pennsylvania and apparently there is enough support for its. And that there's a decent chance it will be -- law and that is this secret compartments. Bob Dole led has been introduced in the N general assembly are you aware of this is just something that the ACLU might be looking at challenging. As soon as the ink is Z is at a dry on the signature. Question itself still 1537. -- and actually came -- last session and did not make it to the I wasn't aware that. But it didn't have ever be -- judiciary -- House Judiciary Committee at the end of April. -- the chamber is attacked and I don't know but it yeah I am hopeful we can stop it but -- -- -- and he just a just. A person who vehicle has eighty secret compartment. That was not part of the original make of this vehicle. And they have criminal intent to use it to commit a crime and they can be charged with a crime cybercrime. Having this secret compartment. How did you. Now -- and -- -- how can you prove criminal intent I mean I am I toolbox in the back in a car and it's kind of underneath the the -- spare tire in the trunks you really don't notice it's there I guess you could call led to I secret compartment let's say how do you prove criminal intent. That's the big question I mean they're trying to that you made that comment to get the best looking ahead next to that is so. Incredibly subjective. Some bad it's sent but hand that the DA. Can decide whether or not the person to -- -- you have. I can you guess the situation in the cabin in Ohio where they have this law. The compartment -- Did you how do you prove criminal intent. Is assured of being you know. A recorded conversation the person who's gonna make controlled delivery -- -- -- human trafficking or something showed that. It's even measure and that and that's the problem here. And AM this comes from state representative king harbor I don't know her personally but I do know her legislative record in general. She's pretty reasonable I mean she's not really part of far right far laughter raining I mean she's. Fairly centrist that's why I was surprised to see where this came from and that it does have some support. But is it. What short am looking for is -- just a flop now and Lenny he they've taken different word rather than just divide is that rationalized is being part of a drug war. That's what the prosecution. Excuse approaching and they actually have made this same argument about those states Supreme Court ruling. That they need this CU fight the drug war. I think you know he's another attempt to. But again that's to be scared and to convince Garciaparra waits. And and that's been the justification for that -- -- -- present our purse so often she talks about I'll. There is trafficking. Drug trafficking and you contracting make those up and -- through our county. I came to New Jersey in New York she's from Montgomery county and that's the justification that he used I mean my feeling is the feeling at these seriously we were considered to analyze this issue but. Police say good job we all recognize that if you -- if you catch the person in the act. And that's great but if you stop them and they have an empty compartment well. We've missed as we know we don't know how do you know the person's going to commit a crime and that's a problem here it becomes very subjective. Want I want that we just had I significant drug arrest outside a Wilkes-Barre here on 115. And they found a whole bunch of heroin bags I don't remember there's like sixty years -- heroin bags stuffed inside of a hall load out. WD-40. Can't sell my -- out there I mean the disciple like this is not on ID in my mind not only. Definitely crossing that line it is -- -- -- not necessarily going to be affected -- it would go to is gonna do we know they don't enacted. It's one of the things that may have an issue with what this whole bill which is. Kinda cool -- bad are benign. That are used for carrying out an activity. And if you. And -- but that also can have very innocent users so. How bad we didn't go how far are we gonna go in criminalizing these instruments -- I'm yeah baseball bat would fit in that description are ratcheted -- I knew we had to hold up in hazel ten. A few years ago or is somebody yelled and urban gardens Georgia on ovals I don't know what they're called but those we need garden things any point 88 at the Courtney got away with a couple hundred dollars that's what it's meant towards meant for dig an -- long run. I think UC example I. Think right now around -- -- -- this car. Also very bad nine. -- so Studdard and been on tour also. Notice immediately it's still staying where we continued to work. Pursued this stroke -- portion undersecretary of corrections. He's been on this program and I I admired John Wetzel all locked I have tremendous respect for him. Begin Z is I mean he's a Corrections Secretary says there's so many people in jail. Great and heed her call at this stage also represented that it budget here he said you know the department can do so much. When it comes to reducing the inmate population. And I'll bet that -- this session alone a year and a half. At about two dozen bills to either curry new crimes or increase speed trading and the sentencing for our existing crimes. Who legislature keeps doing that the prudent regulation gonna continue to do right now. Some polling -- the politicians have to get off of that idea that we have to criminalize everything. And and I got to run some plays tonight I'm really loaded -- spot so I thank you for being here and now we'll talk again. -- don't retired except.