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WILK News Radio>Audio & Video on Demand>>Greg Lukianoff Interview

Greg Lukianoff Interview

Jul 2, 2014|

Greg Lukianoff from FIRE speaks with WILK's L.A. Tarone.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Reorganization is trying to fight some of the insanity at least that we see at college campuses is fire the foundation for individual rights in education. Greg Logan biopsy is the president of that organization he joins -- on the news breaker lying now mr. -- -- first Apollo like close on the pronunciation of the last name. But but but but -- Pistols you know -- -- An -- satire it's a fairly good track -- I'll -- you for being here tonight but tell us what -- fired dies. Here at the foundation. For individual rights and education we Euro was -- exactly fifteen years ago work over to her fifteenth anniversary this year and defend free speech and due process on the and an academic freedom and college campuses. Which means that we oftentimes come head to head wind up political correctness some college campuses. Almost sounds. Counter intuitive. To say that you would have to defend free speech. On college campus is because so many people remember all of a quote unquote free speech rallies in the sixties. They have changed on college campuses are happening. And we just launched a big litigation program download it yesterday we will launch -- and 1 morning but we -- sort some dry runs to -- -- of suits partially because -- -- cases on her lap. The Modesto were junior college in California. Student was literally told that he could not act. Passed out copies of the US constitution on September 17 which is constitution day rank. And outside of the free speech zone and even inside the free speech zone he had to get advance state permission nor did you look at which also meant that wasn't available on competition that. Well -- -- gotten really cereal and the other piece that we filed before -- go live this long flights connect. -- University of Hawaii -- what I told another group of student but they couldn't hand out constitution -- -- took another fellow students to see. And my mind what what -- I am trying to be is PC. As I possibly can I'm trying to think like one a BP C warriors -- -- -- there's going to be discriminate. Kelly's discriminate against discriminatory. About the United States constitution. And what could possibly riled up. Yeah Droid incredible because it's just kind of turned into this sort of mindless application of rules because edu you do have you know good old fashioned sort of political correctness and I've waited a vocal learning liberty to talk about the -- -- the mistreatment of conservative on campus and even though Christians on campus. But some of this stuff is just completely mind let's. What you mentioned -- four Susanna beleaguered and Chicago State University. Citrus state. Iowa State and and Ohio university. And -- you talk about each you know suits a little bit wiped out what is involved in and why you file bump up -- Pretty interesting coalition but overall ultimately against campus speech codes. And and then what what's been frustrating is that speech -- you know and a bit of the current sort of politically correct version of speech -- Came into existence from time on the and he got basically -- in the late -- and they have been defeated in court every single time they've been challenged and pushed into a dozen times now. -- they've been challenged. 58% of public university that we survey and we survey like 430 different schools he seemed -- of the lack. Probably unconstitutional speech goats and this is really our effort -- -- General Counsel universities everywhere hey listen I think there's -- more years ago -- maybe if you wanna maintain your speech currency unit sued. Ohio University are now and then I think it is it's a great coalition of up of students and faculty -- work whether it is all across the political spectrum which is important if you want people take it seriously crisis. I don't. And -- neutral group of all the group called students depending students. And then the the group that actually will defend the -- but don't defend students as basically like General Counsel and lakers are good Bulger were almost -- -- and technically divorced. Disciplinary hearings and they up front open charges. A more subprime with the university speech though -- were there T shirt on which also came. Articulate and some of the Iowa State University chapter of normal -- want you shockingly brutal marijuana leaf on the T shirt. And then there would you can't see them that promotes drug -- so and they explain -- we believed it could be a couple. What's funny application of that but then at Colorado and sorry Chicago State university's. The -- I wanted to talk about the most because the other three are laughable and silly. This one also was a little bit of an applicant a little bit of an implication of a whistle ball or. An and that's what makes this seem like the like the others are silly and ridiculous. In this one seems like really heavy handed. Yeah yeah university again it is a deep case -- -- -- or do we follow on on the basis of the application of the cyber bullying policy. Two web site run by professors to point out of corruption and that they see -- the Chicago university. And the university has gone out of their way to you on trying to prevent some to try to get the web site shut down and the complete violation of freedom -- -- -- complete violation of economic freedom. And and the story itself honestly like I really wanna get some investigative reporters to look in the foot because do other things like I can even on the up on the air. But that that that I that I know about -- talking the protestors were just completely outrageous. Ten and some of those things involved apparently well as as this -- that I I saw a story about your run in the the campaigning just launched in not inside higher -- this morning. -- it's said that it alleges mismanagement. And corruption these -- as mentioned in the running of the university. I would think that would be some thing. That the administration -- school would be interested in seeing unless of course the administration is -- and all -- This otherwise it was capital in time where -- they should be thanking them pointing out well what's going wrong with a college -- of the trying to shut them down they tried. And the people on hobbling through different rationales to try to get this look web site should parents. I -- in general college speech codes aren't they more along the lines. He touchy Feely politically correct thing. -- Our our and there are some that are very careful not to annoy our antagonize say the National Security Agency years something like that. You know they didn't have played the combination they needed it saves both can be touchy Feely kinda like beat you may not annoy people incumbency may not -- -- -- offend anyone on campus. Repeat over and over again you can help or remote inconsiderate jokes are important agent quote unquote appropriately directed laughter and one -- code proponent. Others of emergency type curb these type of regulation things where you have to get state permission. To do practically anything to do both of these are harmful to keep one comes to teaching people and free society. I did somebody from your organization and it may have been you while your name didn't sound familiar summit was on this program about. Three years ago when we were on Sunday. Colin knew it first started to put together an ad serving you just mentioned it said guy 56%. -- -- colleges had some sort of but speech code. Yeah and at that time there -- numbers such stories in the news. Since then you don't hear that much about campus speech -- I mean when you think about politically correct speech -- the teams are callable at staying at ten to university of Dan -- the minor for anybody who. Might be around but the name doesn't ring the bell that was a water buffalo all cases -- -- member of the women chatting outside match and he yelled out the window shop a bunch a water buffaloes and he was brought up for being racially insensitive. But yet it didn't do silly things like that still happen. All the time all the time and the only reason why you don't hear about them and as often is because the media to a degree of -- used to them. I think a couple of years ago armed and can -- just a student was found guilty of racial harassment. Publicly reading a book called on Notre Dame -- -- Celebrated the defeat of the -- no one member from Notre Dame and they -- Tony for a -- decidedly anti Clinton book. But because someone miss understood the cover of the book he would literally found guilty of racial harassment because -- judge a book by its cover. Case in my opinion is even worse from the water -- OK and that what that one -- to fight to get any any attention to at all. That -- that is astounding. And. Went a lot of these speech -- my understanding thank god I went to college in the early eighties so I missed all they stop and vitamins thrown out without a doubt -- All it takes to get some action against -- still wouldn't. Or an organization. Is a complaint from one person is and -- generally how they work. Or that of the that's exactly the way they work because of that these free speech violation they go totally hand -- hand was due process violations. Sometimes it's not just that someone getting punished for their freedom -- But that that that it comes out of nowhere as far as you're concerned only they're getting an expulsion notice horror harassment known as the man who have been found guilty without even. Knowing they were charged through everything. -- at that and that brings me to the other have a question I was gonna ask is what happens when somebody is a judge to a violated a speech coach. In most instances do you get a hearing or you can go and -- -- yourself. Explain the situation. At hand. And or did they just. How do you have some penalty. Are you see it it really is a mixed data can depend on the school and sometimes when they do have -- you know some kind of depends subdued to process it can really end up being sort of -- happen by -- single one hearing. Student was just reading Supreme Court it was to explain those people actually technically protected -- the court and you're completely right. You're completely right in the entire community was so I'm guilty for saying something that you know what I -- -- -- -- we really quite payment. The normal human standards so. Sometimes they get no due process sometime to get some due process and sometimes you get proper due process -- two million universities come to their senses and realize all I'm trying to Parse some conferred -- comes out probably crazy. And and that was the other half how much I was gonna ask -- how many incidences. How many incidents. Are there -- speech codes were you or maybe a student on his own or her own -- was say look this is a little ridiculous this is what happened. Does the school ever backed down because the ones we hear about turn in the big. Knock down brawls are there instances where schools don't come to understand and say. Oh yeah that's Lan and all of absolutely yeah I -- an enemy -- -- -- you don't fire first technique in the first thing we do police and university of letters and sometimes some Smart university in full -- let -- go. All -- didn't know about this is crazy. Remind we're not punishing that student. And it's amazing how often they are -- -- or press release or a lawsuit they actually in the university backed down but that's not to say that there isn't some common sense among league administrators sometimes just sometimes suppressed. A lot of -- administrator who's shown a lot of. He's a professor -- a member of the American association of university professions -- right he questioned guy reading this story. Question fires choices in cases calling them quote unquote Lola hanging fruit. -- none of the grievances are understandable mistakes on the party universities while others are just sheer stupidity regardless he said. University should be wary of lawsuits -- -- reaction to that quote I try to read that. He's been pretty dismissal of the lawsuit so and I don't know I got a lawyer now but I don't think you understand -- -- law filed 4 lawsuits and 1 morning and kind of a big deal. And 58% 58%. Of university that we surveyed. Codes that are absolutely on the back simply unconstitutional. Just to handle a level of -- reporting particularly given that -- now actually there there was no pushing no -- before filing yesterday. I'm pushing you know thirty lawsuits against -- against these code they never ever win in court. And university still maintain these ridiculous playing -- scandal won't and shouldn't be any professor out there who is an outrage. -- Again that's the other half a lead there and the other part of it is that there are. Professors who. Thirty years -- -- rot they're caring protest signs in many cases it is it is in the same professors are -- none are you can't say that that might offend anybody isn't there. At least a degree of irony. And -- -- the great generational swindle. I would think you -- that being -- to you you'll feel wonderful professors who. Will come to and say well the saying they still believe -- freedom of speech and they can believe what happened their universities and we're always happy to work those. Professors should just not. And you wrote a book a few years ago and you just mentioned it about the treatment of conservatives. On non college campuses and the one that strikes me. Most recently -- study and necessarily take seriously as a commentator and colder -- were her appearances both here and in can. Yeah I worked in some cases met by. Violent protests and -- a local university -- -- university -- this is quite a few years ago but this is back in the mid ninety's. Their commencement speaker was Angela Davis an artist from the sixties. It's how did Clinton does -- sense at all is is there any way you could get any way to rationalize that's. Let that -- we call that this invitation to even how well do we we -- -- here. The commencement come that we actually have dubbed this invitation. Condoleezza Rice speaking desktop I forget that that does happen a couple -- about a month and a half a golf. And I was a little about that when that happened I. I -- -- CL lead on the woo woo -- would also disinvited. That he you know who have a great record -- she's very critical lumumba killing her record for defending women's rights but she was disinvited because you're critical to -- Great -- campground. And that word was shot down by student so badly -- so so much that he couldn't turn around speech and armored -- you're you're police commissioner right. Yeah exactly and then what most of the netbook I'm working on my on this freedom front speech because I'm afraid that's what students today are demanding. That's I saw an interesting quote from someone you made reference to it as a matter of fact did not that -- first speech. Is it supposed to offend anybody Europe it doesn't offend anybody students are reduced to silence. It. Actually get -- -- well I think you know my quip about it is that I you know being offended is what happens when you have your deepest beliefs challenged yeah it's different for a year -- having your deeply challenged and demand your money back. I do we do that every day on the show and so my colleagues that's a whole idea behind it it didn't we have. -- about twelve. Colleges and universities. Could not in this so listening area right now and if any one of them thinks they have a speech code or. A -- an individual rights issue and they would like to contact you and the group the foundation for a individual rights in education how can they do that. Go to our web site the fire about a word and we have got some dedicated button right at the top. And since we just started this some litigation program. Are we have a new web site called underneath do we have a new -- email address on the -- stand up to which was the first speech the fire and dot org. Hey is that -- that that program -- began made as you just mentioned Stanford speech litigation project are you intentionally look keying. Four speech codes to challenge. I'll actually was funny is we have all almost unlimited supply of speechwriters. Could because of a sudden -- appears and I virtually without being played like what what is harder to find our students are willing to stand up -- universities and I have to explain that students should. Because when they sent -- -- so they wind and they went to victory not just for -- -- for students all across the country. I can understand why student might what might not want to all you run the risk of retaliation. From the administration and not and maybe worse than that the being ostracized by your friends why how could you be on the outside this issue and -- -- you're not invited to parties and things anymore. University to retaliate against homeowners who would be another -- the only thing they might accomplish is making that that play in the rich. Get out bright lines. Well I I got a previous engagement salon. -- let it go but I'd love to have you back again and if you get contact by anybody in any university around here. I can you let us know and see if that happens sure absolutely I -- -- and they have is that right. Luke yeah and off the -- Let's -- great group began -- is a president. And a foundation for individual rights in education thank you much for spending some time minister and -- -- -- guy.