Charlie Brandt nice to talk to -- In what you do. Any you know wow yeah. Little things have not slowed down here and poured -- country in northeastern Pennsylvania we still got crooks are culprits but. Tell us a little bit about the latest. The latest chapter if you will in -- in that famous book the viewers about that famous piece of Jimmy Hoffa. I. It's -- through the -- entertainment right now and the senate that are making a movie out of it. And Nero will start trying to ration this year and Martin Scorsese will direct it. You know we're playing. -- top fun. You play Russell -- we know. From northeast Pennsylvania so yeah. The -- hands on top of that. Then came hey I'm going to beyond -- that the CDS. And irritation out and WNBA side so. I got them CIA general 44 ya. Every the FIA anyway -- And this -- told detectives. Want to weaken the allies of famously. Mystery of some kind. Adam may have done a show about this year and the irishman. -- -- -- Some parents -- not they didn't need for a written so. And determination. Because the. So what does local mayor Charlie. -- -- caught on current song that's this going to be your time in them and I am. British nationality. But look at what's record now -- -- yeah we'll check. It will make sure we we we cross check and make sure that people watch it because. See -- history of America. In many ways is just -- in in the page after page after page that you DTL. In the book you wrote -- wrote about frank Sherron. After the relationship you developed with him he trusted you sufficiently to to tell you the truth few believe he told you the truth. I believe he told the truth and they are very few people who do not believe he told the truth Charlie. It's pretty universally accepted now. It -- and needed the CIA just by itself. Most gratifying part of this I think because they work the -- on this case and it. The change agent Bob -- the man in charge of the opera. Its investigation monopoly disappearance. The first three years after he disappeared after this close personal friend of mine now. -- includes. And Donnie Brasco the -- stone. Danny Brasco played late Johnny Depp in the movie version with -- and Alpa chino playing. Let's go to Nigeria in Indy movie version yeah. Didn't. Don Briscoe joked and I emailing each other weekly I think sir come. Accepted by them. The men and their real crew. He's he's he's a legendary not only for his his courage as a as an FBI agent. But for his willingness to just stand up in in many ways against his own organization and then you've dealt with. FBI agents who have have not really been given the credit they deserve after risking their lives. Time and time again and that's what -- stone is a legendary among. Police officers who understand what real good cops are. Oh sure and OK okay thank you know I did a book with Joseph called Donnie Brasco unfinished business editor whose original -- Tabasco. Had come -- and equal. Anyway I still unfinished business and even more books seeing them. On some of these issues that you just raised. And then -- need to the great Lyndon -- though as a supervisory and special agent back in the glory days in New York when the FBI agents cannot play out there trying to round. The mosque to its knees which ultimately they did -- PL ended up as a result of an effort. Indicted by the Brooklyn DA on the war. Charges of murder. And we get the book -- -- -- we're going to win this same. The charges were counted it was curiosity on the part of assistant prosecutor and a good DA himself. Well I see that's what's troublesome to me because in northeastern Pennsylvania. What and when we think long and hard about the role the Russell ball fully know the late Russell ball for Leno. The power he -- not only within my -- circles. But within the law enforcement circles -- political circles within labor circles. And the gist of your book is that buffalo Leno hour Rush -- Ordered the hit one Jimmy Hoffa. And the -- the Irish and ensuring carried it out but when we go back into history and when we start to take a look at the at the aftermath of that. Of the of relationships that that buffalo Leno maintained in this community. Some of that corruption. Then he helped. You'll all we're in here and that's why we know they're all good cops and there are bad cops they're all. Federal agents we can trust and there are federal agents we can't trust and I think the mystery here in Charlotte is to continue the fight. But at the same time be ever vigilant because we never know who the bad guy really is. Let -- and saying. It's still an improvement not just. You know we're talking about but it was improvement through. I'm more straight without the memorial you know as somebody can make a beautiful dollar. By -- it's the other side going to the dark side and find people who don't let this day. Unfortunately the good -- -- the and I -- would share that you -- during those five years that I interviewed him. The only man that was unrepentant he was a man who was full of remorse I don't know why people led. And kids in grades -- strict Catholic as -- father -- into the priesthood from five years. Mother only to -- every morning and that's early Catholic indoctrination. -- -- -- These later years just at the moment well -- intersected. And that didn't do that. Look very deeply announces. By the way never knows really realistic for the title Sunday again I hope I to complain announces. Means that direct US tonight. Black people but it is -- blood splatters on the walls and floors and those were the first words spoken to frank cheered by Jimmy Hoffa. -- -- -- Instead northeastern Pennsylvania is sound possible Perino. Setup crucial insurance says that he wanted to -- in -- union work in and actually introduced him to. -- over the telephone. For. Those words that I think you've played thousands. And -- function and interestingly big. It was a movie. Thing here and Robert De Niro is going the plane. She didn't. -- so usually direct and moving. True he's going to play just be up front and Joseph Pesci is going to play Russell bustling around. Do you think -- ever make a run appear like -- guys just jump on the car and take a run up to take a look at the land the land you think that they'll ever do that Charlie. Why they -- they do I'll let you know if I get a hearing about it and I'll certainly give the -- out. I'm -- house I don't want and I got all out there also will take care of that business is this question. Sometimes. One television. Decides to do a look. At what what writers do what does history does sometimes they do a good job and sometimes they don't. Were you satisfied Charlie with with what. History detectives brought to you were you satisfied. With the people you dealt with who put that show together. Totally I haven't seen the show so I don't know. You know what what it's gonna take on more on certain issues that may be a bone of contention about what I wrote. The book. And I wrote a history book and I can assure you wouldn't stand for -- afternoon. I'm the person who -- interrogation the cops and cross examination and other lawyers can I have built a successful career as a trial lawyer. Everybody telling her that I was course examining neurosurgeons for a living that's what I did at. And I truly over five years and have little remorseful for this year and all to myself. An opportunity to test retest. Information that he was giving me and I'm it would Dion -- with the people in connection with the PD yes. She'll come up this -- history detectives. Impressed by -- question. Techniques. And didn't immediately -- easy -- asking all the right questions. -- my answers and the fellow who entered into interviewed me. Absolutely. No doubt shed no I don't know what happens once they. Get together and sit down and make them happy TV show and I haven't seen any yet but I doubt looking forward to CN NM -- I'm sure they got there right. What does get let me ask you this one Monica back from California in 2006. When the first thing my cousins is said to me did you read this book and I said what walked. I came here to work and one of the first things one of my colleagues said to me did you -- isn't -- everybody's talking about. -- but you've got to read Argentine houses. So I came up with a couple of copies from people who are pushing -- -- make. And it is that book that you don't put down. -- a period of time as I thought it through because. I had written extensively Charlie about the mafia I'd written a bomb Russell I'm Matt Russell ball fully know in his last days and I wanna. Thought that crossed my mind eventually. Was the people in power. After Russell died after Hoffa was gone like the irishman sure and was still alive. They must not have ever thought that he would talk to you'll or anybody else what they worry tell him don't you think. No question and -- and she's only talking to me what they thought we were doing what is what my response. To. The back 960. This could find -- Would you know up front. It's such as one of those who. More likely killed him while participating getting rid of the body should they gave him the role. It's a conspiracy as one of the conspirators which. The people that we Delaware because I met with these people. -- Pennsylvania and fairly. In Sweden. And people. You do that I was writing even whitewash. For trying to play to our meetings and that there we were putting together and -- Six books and -- -- out there in France as a member of the conspiracy. And try to do better. I couldn't tell -- these people. Sales. Four in the book came out I was more concerned you know how are they gonna take it dish but so far so good. But see that's that's where I believe that the truth is powerful once you lay it out once it is in the public. View I believe your form more protected but but it is an interesting story that these mob guys thought you guys. We're gonna write the definitive cover up basically and I guess -- fooled them Charlie. -- really sorry and I can -- tell -- but because. Legally as being exposed and he had his moment in glory again meeting between the government witness in all of that issue. I don't know that I ever told this story. Do you think apple would totally on the radio. It. Will end. Coming out this coming out on Memorial Day weekend in 2004. -- Look who's doing the story on on that coming up Monday. She got an email from a former paralegal mine and and a guy who was a friend -- delete delete that. And did -- PS it's really not happy with Charlie. That got our attention so. But I said -- Nancy who believes there read this book from cover to cover and she's not going to see his name mentioned you want. Because frank didn't want his name mentioned. Well yeah Clinton didn't know this is going to pass. Well -- would be satisfied that we talked about a great many things we've ever used the -- name. As far as I know -- -- stay -- that's still the basic Billy would not. What happened with Charlie. Friday. And it's. -- a good time for. Us please tell us they would -- the one that can cause a problem. It makes you feel any better surely he's not very happy with me either and he's still in this community. The last time my tracked them down he had been released into a halfway house and I was able to -- -- a way to get him on the telephone to welcome him home -- hung up on me. And then I wrote a bottom and called on the -- ice cream man because of Q school put ice cream talk about how hard -- full. He was -- put ice cream as the mafia ice cream man but is it fair to say that frank the Irish insurance. Didn't respect Billy -- anyway. Well. Yeah it's very -- -- yeah. That. Thank you can't hardly get -- no listen what I have to wrap this up but you've got these big show come on history detectives special investigations. -- killed Jimmy Hoffa is scheduled to air. Tuesday night July 22. At 9 PM -- on PBS affiliates including northeastern Pennsylvania's. WV I had Charlie -- don't be a stranger it's always good to talk to us and we always got your back. -- -- -- You bet you -- thanks so much -- -- guitar and any time -- Charles Black.